Prime Factors - Ranking UK Prime Ministers

5.2 - UK Special #2 - James Waldegrave, 2nd Earl Waldegrave

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5.2 - UK Special #2 - James Waldegrave, 2nd Earl Waldegrave

Episode Transcript

Parliament: Hip hip hooray!

Parliament: Hip hip hooray! Hip hip hooray!

5 - James Waldegrave

Abram: Hello and welcome back to Prime Factors. I'm Abram and here with my dad. We're reviewing all the British Prime Ministers from Robert Walpole to Keir Starmer. This is UK Special Episode Number 2: James Waldegrave.

Joe: James Waldegrave is the second of two disputed Prime Ministers back in an era where the system wasn't well defined. He was only in office for four days, so we're gonna have a little bit of fun with this.

Abram: No spoilers, Dad.

Joe: Sorry.

Abram: Don't forget that you can find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and at www.primefactorspodcast.com. No spaces. If you enjoy listening, please like, subscribe, comment, and review. You can also follow us on Blue Sky and Facebook.

Joe: We are recording at home today. There are no places named for James Waldegrave, although his nephew William Waldegrave will be a naval governor of Newfoundland. Fort Waldegrave, which is in St. John's, I believe, is named for him. There is, or was, a village called Waldegrave in Nova Scotia, but I found almost no information on it, and I think it was absorbed into a nearby town. It's also most likely not named for James Waldegrave anyway.

Abram: I haven't been to Nova Scotia, or as I should call it, New Scotland, yet.

Joe: Yeah, I know, but even if we wanted to go, the only thing there right now in that town is an organic produce farm that is closed for the winter. I checked.

Abram: If you don't know, we're recording actually in the fall.

Joe: Yes, but they already shut down for the winter because it's colder in Nova Scotia than here.

Abram: Winter doesn't mean like December to like February.

Joe: It means once they pick all their crops in the fall and then they sell them all, they close. And at this point, they're already closed.

Joe: Okay, before we get to our episode, we have something exciting. A promo swap. We're going to be exchanging some promos with other history podcasts in upcoming episodes. For the first one, I am super excited that it is actually one of my favorite podcasts. It's Wittenberg to Westphalia: The Wars of the Reformation by Benjamin Jacobs. I also read a brief passage for him on one of his upcoming episodes. I have been listening to his podcast off and on since 2017, and it's kind of cool to be able to plug him now. So let me play his clip.

Joe: Wittenberg to Westphalia: Wars of the Reformation is the story of how Europe got modern. Other shows might deliver that story with a few episodes of background and then move into a punchy and exciting main narrative, but such obviousness is not the way for Wittenberg to Westphalia: Wars of the Reformation. I started my show in 2014 with the geological formation of Europe in the days of fire and lava, and today I'm up to the year 1066, 400 years before the purported start date of my show. God willing, in two more years I will finish my introduction. Wittenberg to Westphalia: Wars of the Reformation. For some reason, people like it. Available on all podcatchers. Check us out on Bluesky and other social media platforms at W2W Podcast.

Abram: It's kind of ironic that they just said that they won't spend too much time on the preparing episodes, yet last I heard they were still on the preparing episodes and they've been around for many years.

Joe: Yeah, well, I think he was just saying that he's — the Wars of the Reformation start, I don't know when they start, but he's only up to 1066. He has been telling background for at least seven years. But I'm excited. How are you excited?

Abram: For what?

Joe: Well, to get to the rest of our episode, I suppose. So, Abram, before we talk about James Waldegrave, we are going to do something a little bit silly. Do you have your script?

Abram: What does it look like, Dad?

Joe: So, Abram, you are going to play the part of a young Prince George. And there's going to be some other people doing some other voices, and we're going to credit them at the end. Are you ready to embarrass ourselves?

Abram: Uh-huh.

Picture This

Joe: We begin a bit more theatrical than usual with a camera swooping and panning over London. A caption appears on screen reading "May 1752" in a jaunty, happy font as playful orchestra music swells. We gradually pan down across London, passing Parliament and Big Ben to settle on Leicester House, in Westminster, the former home of Frederick, the Prince of Wales, now deceased. It's a stately mansion fit for the future King of Great Britain, though as we approach it now, we can hear the distant sounds of dishes breaking and staff yelling. Abram, I have a picture of Leicester House in front of you.

Abram: Where was it located?

Joe: It is now in what is apparently Chinatown in London, but kind of ironic that it isn't in Leicester. I think they name like — Devonshire House that we talked about last episode wasn't in Devonshire.

Abram: Also, it would be so much better if they just put the square of a trapezoid on top on the other side too. It looks so much better.

Joe: So as we pan into the scene, the Dowager Princess Augusta is speaking to the former governor.

Abram: So Augusta, is that George II's wife?

Joe: No, it's Prince Frederick's wife and George III's mother. So she's the mom, and Prince Frederick has now died, and so they're having to find a governor for the children.

Abram: Uh-huh.

Joe: "I never liked him from the moment he set foot in this door, him and his high and mighty ways, and that face of his that would stop a coal barge, it would." "Indeed, Your Highness, I wouldn't stay in this house another minute, not if you heap me with all the jewels in Christendom." "No, no, Simon, don't go. What will I tell the king about the children?" "It's no concern of mine. Those little beasts have run away from me for the last time. I said my say, and that's all I'll say. I'm done with this house forever."

Joe: Simon races out of the house, slamming the door behind him. The Dowager Princess leans against the wall, bemoaning her sorry state. Nine children in the house with no governor. What should we do?

Abram: Wait, can't they just have Augusta stay there with the children?

Joe: Yes, but that's not what they did back then, I guess.

Abram: I don't really know, because didn't back then usually the mother was supposed to be in charge of the children? It is, but unlike in The Sound of Music, the mother is still alive at this point, so why do they even need them?

Joe: So Abram, had you have watched Mary Poppins for homework like I wanted to, you would find that the British aristocracy often hired nannies and governors and governesses for their children even when they were around. 'Cause they were too busy to raise their kids. They paid someone else to do it for them.

Joe: Okay. The camera pans up and out of the house, settling in on a playroom on the second floor. Inside, we see three children: Augusta, a girl of about twelve wearing a pretty flower dress; George, a boy of about thirteen with a mischievous smile; and Edward, twelve, looking very shy. Despite his age, he still holds a teddy bear. The trio watch out the window as carriages come and go, the constant hum of business in Leicester House. Suddenly, a gust of wind sweeps through the room, blowing the curtains inward. Paper and toys swirl into deep piles. A faint whistling tune echoes in the background.

Abram: George, look!

Joe: The children are in awe as a man appears over the London skyline, soaring through the air, carrying a briefcase in one hand and an open umbrella in the other. He floats across the London rooftops, bobbing and weaving, but heading straight for Leicester House.

Abram: Perhaps it's a witch. Of course not, witches have brooms. It's him! Our new governor? He has rosy cheeks and everything, and no horns!

Joe: The man continues to approach the playroom, flitting effortlessly through the large open windows and landing gracefully on the playroom floor, brushing off his immaculate coat. He carefully closes his umbrella and places it nonchalantly in his pocket before smiling at the children with his biggest, widest smile.

Joe: "Good day, Your Royal Highnesses. I'm Lord Waldegrave, but you may call me Governor James. I hear you've been in need of some proper guidance."

Abram: We better keep an eye on this one. He's tricky. He's wonderful.

Joe: "Now, His Majesty the King says that I am to begin teaching you immediately on the importance of government. You'll be king someday." He pats George on the head. "And you're the spare in case George dies of smallpox. Better keep those windows open to get air, just in case." He pats Edward on the head. Edward holds his teddy bear even tighter and gulps.

Joe: "And you." He looks over at little Augusta. "I'm sorry, the United Kingdom won't adopt absolute primogeniture until 2011." Wait, how does he know that? He's magic.

Abram: Yeah, that makes sense.

Joe: "You're out of luck, I'm afraid, and your daughter is going to marry your cousin. Sorry about that." All the children look aghast as James pulls a small harmonica out of his briefcase, plays a note, and then begins to sing.

Joe: For every job that must be done, there's an element of fun. You find the fun and snap, the job's a game. And every job you give your friend is more patronage you can spend. A bribe, a ride, there is no need to hide. It's just a spoonful of corruption helps the government go round. The government go round. The government go round. Just a spoonful of corruption helps the government go round in a most Whiggish way.

Abram: So are you saying that the wheels of state need a little grease to turn smoothly?

Joe: Exactly. Now you get it. A bribe or two, a promotion for your friend, a salary for a job you never go to. It's what makes the glorious British Empire turn. And so what if we put incompetent people into key roles? It's still money for us.

Abram: Won't the voters try to vote you out? How could you possibly stay in power in a democracy when you treat the government like your personal bank account?

Joe: That's a very good question, young Edward. I have a song for this as well. It's Old Sarum-Gatton-Newtown-East Looe-Dunwich-Plympton Erle, places that once exist but now are somewhat empty. We can buy up all the seats and give them to a friendly Old Sarum-Gatton-Newtown-East Looe-Dunwich-Plympton Erle.

Joe: Um-dittle-ittl-um-dittle-I, um-dittle-ittl-um-dittle-I. I used to think a proper vote was one that made you sweat, but then I found a pocket seat where deals were easy set. With just a word, a wink or two, we'd hold the polls in hand. Our borough's ours from bridge to hill, it's really rather grand.

Joe: It's Old Sarum-Gatton-Newtown-East Looe-Dunwich-Plympton Erle. Places that once existed but now are somewhat empty. We can buy up all the seats and give them to a friendly Old Sarum-Gatton-Newtown-East Looe-Dunwich-Plympton Erle.

Joe: Suddenly, Princess Augusta rushes into the room holding a broom. "Out, out! You aren't the new governor. You're just here to spy on my family and teach them to give too much power to your corrupt parliament." She beats at James Waldegrave, pushing him out as the children look on in horror. He stumbles to the window and nearly falls out before retrieving the umbrella from his coat, opening it and soaring back into the clouds.

Joe: "I'll be Prime Minister one day, you'll see!" "There, that's taken care of. Vermin, the whole lot of them." She closes and locks the window, then closes the blinds. "Need to keep this window locked. One of these guys got into Lady Darling's house near Kew Gardens last week, and the kids are still talking about economic policy. 'Clap if you believe in tariffs!' Pish posh!"

Joe: She pauses to wipe her face with a handkerchief and opens the door. "Your new governor is here. I would like you to meet John Stuart, but you can call him Governor Bute."

Abram: Do you mean Governor Butt?

Joe: No, I mean Governor Bute. As the camera pulls away from the window and across the smoky streets of London, you can just barely make out a very different song.

Joe: Tor-tor-a-ye, tor-tor-a-ye, tor-tor-a-eeee. When you're with a Tory, you're in good company. We're not just Catholics and Jacobites, you see, but we'll follow the King's will absolutely. Just put us in power and you'll see it be.

Joe: A title card appears over London with the same jaunty font. The orchestra swells. The End.

Joe: All right, that's our little scene. I don't know if we'll ever do something like that again. What do you think, Abram?

Abram: We will. I think that was a cool idea.

Joe: Was that a lot of fun?

Abram: Yes.

Joe: Okay, I had fun writing up the script and the songs.

Abram: Well, I think now we can say that the rest of the episode will be a lot more forgettable than this part. I think this will probably be the most memorable part of the episode.

Joe: I don't know, we still have to do the rating. All right, Abram. Are you ready for our more serious story about James Waldegrave? Okay, let's go.

Ancestry

Joe: James Waldegrave's life was shaped by his family history. While he had politically active ancestors going back as far as King Richard II, the big year that shaped his life was 1534. Do you know what happened in that year, Abram?

Abram: Was that the year where Henry VIII started to become crazy?

Joe: Well, that was the year that Henry VIII split the Church of England from Catholicism. So depending on your point of view, that might be accurate. One of James's ancestors, named Edward Waldegrave, was 18 at the time. We don't know whether he publicly accepted Anglicanism or not, but we know that his family and many other families in England continued to be Catholic.

Joe: But even Henry VIII's family was split. Remember that his young son Prince Edward was Protestant, and his half-sister Princess Elizabeth, but his eldest daughter Princess Mary, she was very Catholic. We're not going to do justice to this whole story here, but does this start to connect to the podcast that we're advertising? Wittenberg to Westphalia.

Abram: Does it vaguely connect to them?

Joe: I think it vaguely connects to them, yes.

Abram: So this episode we do have a reason to advertise them besides them advertising us. Shout out to them once again.

Joe: That is true. So in 1547, Edward Waldegrave managed to get himself appointed into Princess Mary's household thanks to a little tug from his uncle who had a job with her already. But this was just as Henry VIII had died. So Edward became the new Protestant king. Which Edward was this, Abram?

Abram: Of all of England, I think he's Edward VIII due to counting the Anglo-Saxon ones.

Joe: But how do we actually count him?

Abram: The eighth, because that's how actually it's supposed to be.

Joe: Ignoring the two Anglo-Saxon Edwards, he's Edward VI.

Abram: Even though he's not actually the sixth.

Joe: We can have this debate on a different podcast. So in any event, Edward VI, or really his regency council since he was just 13 at the time —

Abram: He was nine when he got the throne.

Joe: Was he nine when he got the throne?

Abram: Yep.

Joe: So how old was he in 1551?

Abram: He was 13.

Joe: 13. Okay, see, I was right.

Joe: All right, Edward VI, or rather his regency council since he was just 13 at the time, did not like that his sister was becoming a focal point for the pro-Catholic sentiment in the country, and he issued an order, 1551, that she would not be allowed to have Catholic services at her house. So Edward Waldegrave was working for her and he refused to carry out this order. So she continued to have Catholic mass, but it was hard to punish the princess. So instead, Edward VI punished Edward Waldegrave, threw him in the Fleet Prison first, then he threw him in the Tower of London. He was released a year later, but as you can probably imagine, Princess Mary probably felt a little indebted to the guy who went to prison to help allow her to stay Catholic.

Joe: But when did Edward VI die?

Abram: 1553. Also, Edward VI would actually be Edward IV, who died in 1483.

Joe: So Edward VI died in 1553 at only 15. You're very good at this. Slightly annoying with the Edwards, but you're very good at this.

Abram: Because the Edwards happened at them before, so — the sixth Edward would actually be what most people —

Joe: But the Normans started the counting over again because the only king that mattered was William the Conqueror.

Abram: Then William the Conqueror should get punished. They should do what they did to Oliver Cromwell after he died.

Joe: So in any event, in 1553, Princess Mary became Queen Mary, and she returned the country to Catholicism, leading purges of Protestants that would eventually earn her the nickname Bloody Mary.

Abram: That she died. Imagine if she did. That would be kind of ironic.

Joe: It would be ironic, but she's not quite dead yet. At this point, it's Elizabeth's turn to sit sort of on the sidelines and secretly practice her Anglican faith. With Mary now queen, Edward Waldegrave was showered with rewards, right? He had kept her Catholic even though he got thrown in prison for it.

Abram: So basically he had gold raining in his shower. Ow, that must hurt.

Joe: Well, she gave him two manors, Navestock in Essex and Chewton in Somerset. She knighted him. She added him to her Privy Council. The Waldegrave family was on the rise.

Abram: Fun fact: the Waldegrave family is related to the Walpole family, which is related to Princess Diana's family.

Joe: That's true. And we're going to talk about that a little bit more later in the episode.

Abram: I looked at a family tree and it's true. It is pretty cool.

Joe: So Queen Mary, she wasn't queen very long, was she, Abram?

Abram: She was queen for five years, which is a pretty long time. It's longer than some presidents.

Joe: That's true, but she didn't live all that long, and she died without an heir. So her half-sister Elizabeth became Queen Elizabeth I, and she reinstated Protestantism. Edward Waldegrave, despite having been, you know, a big person, a big important person in Queen Mary's reign, he refused to abandon his Catholic faith again, and Elizabeth threw him in the Tower of London. But unlike last time, where he got out of the Tower of London in a year, she kept him there for the rest of his life.

Abram: When did he die?

Joe: He died in 1561. So the family had become important, and then the family became very unimportant again. We're going to jump ahead two generations. We find a guy named Sir Edward Waldegrave. At this point, the family had remained Catholic, but he is best known for joining a different lost cause. He was a Royalist and a Cavalier during the English Civil War.

Abram: Cavalier, like the marble I use?

Joe: Yes. Abram names his marble run marbles after lots of different stuff. At 70 years old, he commanded a regiment of horsemen that fought for Charles I, and shortly before Charles was — he made Edward into a Baronet. Now, of course, the Rump Parliament took the title away, but when Charles II returned to the throne, they got the title back.

Abram: Even though — weren't they probably dead at that time?

Joe: Well, he was dead, but the title was given to his son. So the thing that happened when Charles II was on the throne is they just retroactively imagined that the moment Charles I had died, Charles II became king.

Abram: Fun fact! Charles II was actually King of Scotland for two years after Charles I died. So there's actually a different reason why he stopped after a battle in actually 1651. So he's actually King of Scotland for two years.

Joe: That is a very, very cool fact.

Abram: And also pretty obscure.

Joe: I agree. So the good news for the Waldegraves was that Charles II was secretly Catholic, or at least Catholic-leaning. And so he was very supportive of Catholic aristocratic families. Particularly ones that were as important as the Waldegraves.

Joe: So in 1661, our James Waldegrave's grandfather was born. He's called Henry Waldegrave, and as a prominent Catholic, he's going to become very close to James, the Duke of York, and his family. This is the person who's going to be called James II. You knew that, right?

Abram: James II and VII. And how many times do I have to tell you? That the James II of Scotland is different than the James II of England. So that's why he is James II and VII.

Joe: I am sorry, Abram. So in 1683, James II and VII consented to allow Henry Waldegrave, who is our James Waldegrave's grandfather, to marry James II and VII's daughter, Henrietta FitzJames. Now, she was an illegitimate daughter, not with his wife, but still, the Waldegraves have just married into the royal family.

Abram: Oh.

Joe: Now, what they didn't know at this point was that Charles II would die without children. So he's still James, Duke of York. So they didn't know at the time that they were going to be marrying into the royal family. They assumed that Charles would have kids. He didn't have kids. His brother James got the throne, and now they're even closer. So the Waldegraves are coming to power. What could possibly go wrong?

Abram: No Catholics. Hmm. I have a vague memory of that happening in three years, but I can't recall it that well.

Joe: So the point is that while James II was king, he made his now son-in-law Henry into an ambassador, and he became a very important person in James II's court. However, we know that something happened in 1688. In 1688, William and Mary had the Glorious Revolution.

Abram: Is this another thing that has to do with the podcast that the promos are going to?

Joe: It's great timing. It's because he's a Catholic, and so he's involved in all the Catholic stuff, or his family is at any rate. So the point is that in 1688, William and Mary had the Glorious Revolution. They invaded England. They kicked out James II. And guess what happened to the Waldegrave family?

Abram: Tower of London.

Joe: Well, maybe, but they realized that if they stuck around, they might go to the Tower of London. So actually what they did is that they fled to France with the former James II and VII.

Abram: But was he still King of Scotland? I'm not sure.

Joe: He wasn't.

Abram: And so he was now James the Not and Not King.

Joe: Yes. So they fled with him to France. They joined him at his court in exile in Saint-Germain-en-Laye. I hope I'm saying that correctly. And then they had a kid. They named him James after James II and VII and raised him as a Catholic in France.

Joe: Then something kind of lucky happened, but also very sad. Henry Waldegrave, that's our James Waldegrave's granddad, died when his son James, our James Waldegrave's dad, was only five years old. So although his mother remained a Jacobite and they became — and they were very prominent, this meant completely by accident that all of the laws that were passed against the Jacobites that had rebelled during the Glorious Revolution didn't apply because James's dad was only five. This meant that their family got to keep all their lands and titles in England, even though they had fought with and fled with —

Abram: I don't get it. How did that happen?

Joe: The Pretender. Because the laws were written to punish the people who joined with James II and went to France. But the laws weren't written to punish a kid, so because the kid's dad died, Henry died, the law didn't apply to Henry's son James. And so therefore James got to retain all of his lands and titles in England. Admittedly, he was still living in France at the time, but this is going to be how when the Waldegraves returned to England in a little bit, they already have, you know, all of their titles.

Joe: So James Waldegrave, the father of the future disputed Prime Minister, he grew up in exile in France. He studied in France, he studied in Italy, he even spent time with the Medici court in Florence. In 1714, he married a Catholic woman named Mary Webb, but by 1715, he had decided to return to England. He registered as Catholic with the government. The laws at the time were still very anti-Catholic, but by registering with the government, you could keep your land and things. He did have to pay a double tax, but this ensured that he kept all of the ancestral land. And very soon, James and Mary were expecting their first kid, James Waldegrave.

Silver Spoons

Abram: How many spoons does he have so he can have soup?

Joe: Now that James Waldegrave's born, we got to calculate his Silver Spoons. As usual, if you care about this, we'll put it up on our website. Probably at some point. But unlike everyone else we've looked at so far, he was being raised Catholic at a time in England when Catholics were discriminated against. So this score is even more awkward than it might otherwise be.

Joe: For direct family members, we only count back to the grandparents. And so that means that the fact that he was the great-grandson of James II does not win him any points, which is good because that means I don't have to figure out what an illegitimate child should get.

Abram: But I thought we calculated all the way back for Wikipedia articles.

Joe: We calculate the dad's line all the way back, but not the mom's line. Because I do this in two sections. There's the direct relative section, which is all the grandparents on both sides, and then there's the family name section.

Abram: I do think we should give an extra point because he is pretty related to the former king. I don't know if it's like a great-grandparent that's like very important like that, we'll give them like a point.

Joe: We can make some adjustments, but the point is, do you want to make a guess how many Silver Spoons James Waldegrave has?

Abram: Ten.

Joe: No.

Abram: Higher or lower?

Joe: Lower.

Abram: Five.

Joe: Lower.

Abram: Two.

Joe: Higher.

Abram: Four. Four.

Joe: James Waldegrave got only four Silver Spoons. That's because his dad was prominent, his grandpa was prominent, but pretty much no one else. The family was really at a low point.

Young Life

Joe: So James Waldegrave, our James Waldegrave, because of course he has the same name as his dad. He was born March 4th, 1715. Since he was born into a Catholic family, let's talk for a second about what that meant, right, in terms of being a Catholic, being raised in England.

Joe: First, laws in 1673 and 1678 prevented Catholics from holding public office. Or any military ranks. So that means that James and his dad would be unable to get a job in the government or in the military. Catholics were often not allowed to purchase land, and they could only inherit it in limited circumstances. For example, they could not inherit land from a Protestant relative, only from other Catholic relatives.

Joe: Catholic worship was restricted. Priests were not allowed to say mass publicly. Mass, by the way, is the Catholic word for their services, right, with the priest and doing the religiony stuff. Catholics had to keep their kids in English/Anglican schools. They were not allowed to send kids out of the country for education, and schools had to be licensed by the state so that they could only teach Anglicanism. In practice, rich families found a way around some of this stuff.

Abram: How?

Joe: You know, they just sent their kids off to a relative in France, and, you know, he's just visiting, we swear, and then they go to school there. And then they become a Jesuit or something. Catholics could face fines for not attending Anglican services, and they often would face higher taxes just for being Catholic, which is bad.

Joe: Yeah, don't forget that we had the Jacobite Rising in 1715, which is right after James was born, but his parents kept out of it.

Abram: When was he born?

Joe: He was born March 4th, 1715.

Abram: When did the thing happen?

Joe: October, November, something like that. The bottom line is that that made it even more uncomfortable to be a Catholic in England, right? Because they had just had a Jacobite rebellion, and it was even worse for them. Don't forget, they are literally related to the Pretender. James II is his great-grandfather. What do you think people are going to think, right?

Abram: Bad.

Joe: James's father did not want people to think that they're bad, and he would often fight against the idea that Catholics couldn't be loyal. So he joined a group to, quote, "establish the Englishness of English Catholics' hearts," but it didn't make any progress.

Joe: At this stage, right, the family was just growing. His sister Henrietta was born in 1717. His little brother John was born in 1718. But unfortunately, having children was dangerous back then, and James's mother died in 1719 while pregnant with a third sibling.

Abram: And the sibling didn't survive, I'm guessing?

Joe: No. So now a single parent, James's father continued to try to patch up relations between Catholics and Anglicans in England. He attended two conferences led by James Craggs the Younger. We didn't really talk about him, but he was kind of important at this point. He was Southern Secretary. But these conferences didn't go anywhere. There was no progress made.

Joe: At some point after these conferences, James's father must have done some kind of literal soul-searching. Should he remain Catholic, or should he take the easier road and just convert to Anglicanism?

Abram: I think you should take the easier road.

Joe: That's a tough choice. I mean, think about it. If you're a Catholic, you believe that if you convert to Anglicanism and they're wrong, you're going to burn in hell. I mean that, you know, in the literal sense, which is why that word isn't a swear in this case.

Joe: On February 12th, 1722, James's father took the Oaths of Allegiance and Supremacy. He officially renounced his Catholicism. He was back in the good graces of England. And guess what? He got to sit in the House of Lords because he was still a Baron.

Joe: We don't know how the children felt about this, but keep in mind that James Waldegrave was only six, his little brother was four, and so they were pretty much too young to have an opinion. But for some reason, their sister Henrietta, she went to move in with her grandmother, Henrietta FitzJames, and she was going to be raised Catholic. The two boys were going to be raised Anglican, but the girl was taken to her grandmother's to be raised Catholic. We don't really know why. James was enrolled in Westminster School in London, and they started their life. They're now part of the political establishment.

Joe: Because we're not spending enough time talking about the actual James Waldegrave we're supposed to be talking about, I will just say that James's dad, he got a lot of opportunities as soon as he converted. He briefly became a Lord of the Bedchamber to George I. He was made a special envoy to France during the signing of the Treaty of Hanover. As he became more prominent, James graduated from Westminster. He started going to Eton. Which is a very important school.

Joe: And according to at least some sources, James's father was supposedly involved in a secret plot in June 1727. James's father supposedly hid George I's will. So George I had written a will that said that when he died, the Electorate of Hanover and the King of England would be split into two different jobs, like they wouldn't be in personal union anymore. The will apparently allowed for George II to continue to have both, but after that they would have a different succession, and that the Electorate of Hanover would be permanently split from the King of England.

Joe: However, George II didn't want this, and so there is a rumor that George II supposedly worked with James Waldegrave the Elder to hide George I's will and it wasn't discovered for a long, long time. And so I'm not sure — this apparently came up because of Horace Walpole many, many years later, and it might not even be true at all. But what is true is that there is some reason that George II really, really became friends with the elder James Waldegrave at this point.

Joe: So he showered him with gifts. He became one of Britain's top ambassadors. He had gone to both Paris and Vienna. He was a Lord of the Bedchamber. He was made an Earl, so he became Earl Waldegrave, which is why his son is going to be Earl Waldegrave as well. He was given the Order of the Garter.

Abram: He's an Order of Undies.

Joe: Yes. And he was even made the Vice Admiral of Essex. And all of this from a guy who wasn't even allowed to hold office a couple years before. James's dad was doing very well.

Joe: When James's dad became an Earl in September 1729, James was given a courtesy title. We've seen that before. And so he is now the Viscount Chewton. He probably wished that they had come up with a better sounding title.

Joe: Unfortunately, James's father had to be away for long stretches as an ambassador. James and his brother were in Eton, which is a sleepaway school. But when they came home from the holidays, if their dad was in Paris or Vienna, they would stay with their grandmother in Navestock.

Joe: And remember, James had become really good family friends with Robert Walpole. Walpole helped him.

Abram: Are they literally related though?

Joe: They're not related yet. So James's father had become very close friends at this point with Robert Walpole, and Robert Walpole had helped him get various jobs. And you might be surprised to learn that the families were so close that young Horace Walpole, who is Robert Walpole's son —

Abram: Is he the book guy?

Joe: He is the book guy. His age is between the two Waldegrave brothers, so he's younger than James, but he's older than John. Horace Walpole would come and spend holidays with the Waldegraves and their family in Navestock, and that there are actually stories in Horace Walpole's memoirs of him being around twelve, playing with James when he was fifteen, and John when he was eleven, at their grandmother's house. Like, isn't that so awesome? It's like these characters had a childhood and playdates.

Abram: Playdates weren't even invented.

Joe: He went to stay with his friends at their grandparents' house.

Abram: That's a sleepover.

Joe: It's a sleepover. Fine. So James is going to remain close friends with Horace Walpole over his entire life.

Joe: By 1732, however, James's dad decided that his kids should join him in France. He withdrew them from Eton. He hired a French tutor, a guy named Pierre Clément, to finish the kids' schooling. And he also gave James his first job, making him his private secretary. And he was teaching him how to be an ambassador.

Joe: There were rumors at the time that James's dad took him to France to secretly teach him Catholicism, but I don't think this is true. He could have taught him Catholicism in England. He was staying with his Catholic grandmother. It doesn't make sense that he would have needed to take him to France.

Joe: While James was doing this, his brother John actually is gonna be commissioned as an Ensign in the Footguards, and he's gonna have a very long, very good military career that we're not gonna have time to talk about, but he's gonna be in pretty much every one of the upcoming British wars, and he's gonna end up being a General.

Joe: But in 1740, James's father, 56 years old, died. He died of dropsy and jaundice. I don't know how you die of that. It sounds awful. Catholic sources claimed that he recanted on his deathbed and it's like, oh dear, I chose the wrong religion. But either way, he was gone. And that means that James, still only 26 years old, became the 2nd Earl Waldegrave.

Abram: Oh, Waldegrave.

Earl Waldegrave

Joe: Less than two weeks after his father died, James Waldegrave took his seat in the House of Lords. This is actually about the same time that William Cavendish entered Parliament, but of course remember he was joining the Commons. And this is like in Walpole's very end of his career.

Joe: Shortly after he resigned, Walpole was faced by impeachment. We talked about this way back in his episode.

Abram: We haven't talked about it since.

Joe: We haven't talked about it since, but basically they were trying to say that Walpole had committed a whole bunch of crimes while he was in office. And ultimately the impeachment failed, like they weren't able to get enough votes. But one of the attacks against Walpole was that he appointed a "Catholic," James's dad, the elder James Waldegrave, as Ambassador to France.

Joe: So James Waldegrave, our James Waldegrave, wrote a speech to defend his dad, but he never needed to give it because the impeachment failed. This is a big reminder that James and his family — remember, he is the Pretender's grandson. They were still tainted by Catholicism, and not everyone trusted them. James was less suspected than his dad was, but there may have been others in government that would be uncomfortable giving him a leadership position.

Joe: Even though he might not be able to get a leadership position, his family was still close to George II. On December 17th, 1743, George II appointed James as a Lord of the Bedchamber. So this is somebody that helps — essentially helps the king get dressed and stuff like that, although in practice they manage the servants that help the king get dressed, but it's basically the bedroom servant. But this was against the wishes of Thomas Pelham-Holles. He wanted to place a more loyal Whig in that position, but George II said, "Nope, I want James Waldegrave."

Joe: This gave James direct time with the king, and they would actually become pretty close friends. In the years that followed, George II is going to push first Henry Pelham and then Thomas Pelham-Holles, the Duke of Newcastle, to give James Waldegrave government jobs. He's going to try to get him Master of the Horse. William Cavendish got that job last episode, by the way.

Abram: What's Master of the Horse?

Joe: This was the guy responsible for officially the stables of the king.

Abram: So he gets to clean horse poop?

Joe: He gets to be in charge of the people that clean the horse stuff.

Abram: Of course he doesn't have to clean the horse.

Joe: But he also gets to sit with the king during parades and stuff, so it's a pretty important —

Abram: Does he get to sit on a horse next to the king?

Joe: Yes. So George II tried to get him a couple of ambassadorships, and the intention seems to be that George wanted him to eventually be Secretary of State. But for some reason, they kept blocking him. Like, he kept saying, can James Waldegrave do this? And then the Prime Minister kept saying no.

Joe: In 1750, Henry Pelham actually talked about this, explaining why he wasn't giving him any high jobs. He said that Waldegrave was, quote, "as good-natured, worthy, and sensible as any man in the kingdom," but —

Abram: Of course he's talking that fancy —

Joe: Of course, but "totally surrendered to his pleasures," and that "I believe that mankind, no one more so than himself, would be surprised to see him in such a high office."

Joe: In other words, Waldegrave was too much of a playboy to even want a serious job, and it sounded like Henry Pelham didn't think he'd do well even if he got one. So this is as good a time as any to talk about his personality.

Personality

Joe: By this point, James Waldegrave was in his mid-30s. Despite coming up as a Catholic, it had been at this point 30 years since his family had been outside the political sphere, and that he was the aristocratic son of a prominent ambassador, and that seems to have shaped his personality in a very different way than his father.

Joe: When Henry Pelham said that he had "surrendered to his pleasures," he probably was referring to one of Waldegrave's long-term problems: gambling. At some point in his 20s, James began frequenting White's, a London club, a gaming establishment. It was a place where people could come together and socialize, but also bet on things. And from what I understand, this included normal types of gambling like dice games, but also places where the rich could make kind of more weird bets.

Joe: In 1743, for example, he placed a bet, a very macabre bet, that fewer than 14 members of the House of Commons would die in the coming year, and someone else bet that more than 14 would die in the coming year. And this wasn't a small bet. This is like $30,000 in today's money. There was another bet where they gambled on which of two old men would die first.

Joe: So it's crazy amounts of money. It just feels distasteful. I don't know if this was common, but about this 14 House members, I thought I could look this up, but it turns out that there isn't that great of records. So I wasn't able to figure out whether he won the bet or not. According to ChatGPT, on average between 11 and 14 members of the House of Commons would die every year. But ChatGPT could have just been making that up. So it seems like it could have been a good bet. But I don't know whether he won or not.

Joe: So in 1760, so we're going far ahead, when George II died, James Waldegrave was going to claim that he was too ill to go to the king's funeral, but that he was strong enough to go play games at White's. So when you're missing the king's funeral to gamble, I think you might have a gambling problem. Now that's still years in the future, but I have a feeling that Henry Pelham might have been aware of this.

Joe: On the bright side, James Waldegrave was considered educated. He was well-read. In 1749, he received an honorary doctorate from Cambridge. He was made a Fellow of the Royal Society, which means he must have done something important to science.

Abram: So is he a doctor now?

Joe: He was an honorary doctor, an honorary doctor of law. So he was more like a lawyer, but not even a real lawyer. He was an honorary lawyer. I'm assuming that he made big donations to someone and they said, thank you for the money, here's a doctorate.

Joe: Waldegrave also maintained correspondence. He sent letters to his former tutor Pierre Clément, who had become a playwright and a literary critic. Some of Waldegrave's — not his letters, but some of the replies to his letters were published in a magazine called Les Cinq Années Littéraires. I cannot pronounce the French, I apologize. Waldegrave bought ten copies of every issue, and other British elites like William Pulteney, William Pitt, and William Cavendish also subscribed to this magazine.

Joe: For some reason, all named William. I don't think that had anything to do with it, but William Pitt, William Pulteney, and William Cavendish were the three that I found on the list of subscribers, which was published online. Amazing what you can find online in 2024.

Abram: Or whatever in the future for our listeners.

Joe: Yes. So in March 1751, someone died. You know who died? Frederick. Frederick, the Prince of Wales, died. James's days as an idle playboy would soon be coming to an end.

Lord Warden of the Stannaries

Joe: After Frederick's death, it was necessary both to find men to hold his offices as well as ensure the care of Frederick's family, including all of his many children. One of which was the future George III, still at this point called Prince George.

Joe: So having looked for years for a chance to offer James a more prominent job, George II gave him the job of Lord Warden of the Stannaries, which was a role that was previously overseen by Frederick. This is a role primarily in Cornwall and Devon, so we're like in way southwest of England. It's kind of like the Lord Lieutenant roles, except that he was responsible for the tin mines in southwest England.

Joe: And so I'm going to give you a 40-minute history of tin mining in England. 40 minutes? I'm kidding, I'm not going to give you a 40-minute history of tin mining. But the point is that tin was very important to Britain at the time. It could be mixed with copper to produce bronze. It was used for cannons and other artillery. It was used for cookware, decorations. They sold a lot of tin to Europe. So this was a big deal that he was put in charge of the tin mines in southwest England.

Joe: And those mines were so important that the tin miners, the people that work there, had special rights that nobody else had. And so being Lord Warden of this was actually a very important job.

Joe: And one of those special rights that they had was something called the Parliament of the Stannaries, or Parliament of the Tinners. "Stannaries" seems to be a very old word for person who does tin. I've never heard it before this week. So these parliaments that were originally established in the Middle Ages were unique legislative assemblies representing just the tin miners of Cornwall and Devon. They could enact laws for the tin industry, they could raise taxes, they could mediate disputes, they could make judgments. This is a huge local benefit, and I don't know any other part of England quite like it.

Joe: And the Lord Warden was responsible for leading this parliament. The government in London didn't really like this. They thought that having a parliament in Cornwall could diminish their authority. So part of the role of the Lord Warden was to ensure that both sides got a little of what they wanted, but not a lot.

Joe: So in August of 1752, one of these parliaments was called, and James was expected to lead the parliament, to act as the Speaker and the King's representative, but he wanted nothing to do with it. He didn't care about tin, he didn't care about the miners' disputes, he claimed he didn't understand tin. Like, he'd had more than a year in this job, and he still, like, couldn't have been bothered to learn anything about the tin industry.

Joe: So he decided not to come. This was the first time in 200 years that the Lord Warden refused to attend one of these parliaments. He did send a deputy instead, but not coming sent a message.

Joe: So what was Waldegrave doing instead of this job that he had in the year that he was Lord Warden? We know that he attended a gambling party in Essex that apparently lasted three to four days. We know that he still went to White's in London. We know that he took a tour of Suffolk and Norfolk with the Duke of Cumberland, including stopping at least once to gamble on horse races.

Abram: Of course, the horses, they came back.

Joe: It's not clear whether any of that happened during the parliament itself or whether it was earlier in the year, but he clearly didn't care about this job much. So I'm feeling like Henry Pelham's statement about him might have been a little right, even though he didn't do his job. Or maybe he did do his job, right? Maybe this was all a calculated effort to keep the power of that parliament down by not showing up. And if so, good on him, I guess.

Joe: But George still added him to the Privy Council, George II. So did Waldegrave not attend that parliament because he "surrendered to his pleasures" like Henry Pelham had said, or was it a political move to increase the power of London? Well, I guess we're gonna have to decide that when it's time to rate him.

Governor to the Prince of Wales

Joe: So with his role as Lord Warden either a success or a failure — well, depending on your point of view — George II wanted James for another important job: to help take care of his young grandson.

Joe: After Frederick's death, a man named Simon Harcourt was appointed as his governor, and he's going to be responsible for his upbringing and education. So this might come as a surprise since George's mother was still alive. She's Princess Augusta of Saxe-Gotha and now the Dowager Princess of Wales. But she was not British, she was not well-liked by George II, and it's also true that in those days, having nannies and governors was very common, especially among the aristocracy.

Joe: So the household of the Prince of Wales, based out of Leicester House, they already had tensions with George II even before Frederick died. But with Frederick now gone, George II and Princess Augusta battled over who would control the life and education of the future George III. So appointing a governor, especially one allied with George II instead of Augusta, was a critical part of this battle.

Joe: And so this is kind of where our story at the beginning takes place, right? We had Simon. He was the previous governor. He's going to quit or be pushed out. And then we're going to see, because this is the job that James Waldegrave got shoved into.

Joe: So in 1752, Prince George was just 14. As part of this reshuffling, he was also made Keeper of the Privy Purse for the household, and he was essentially put in charge of what they called the Junior Court. That's the court in waiting in case George II would accidentally die.

Joe: At least at first, James seemed to do his job fairly well. He didn't like to teach from books, and he supposedly had a more freeform style, very Mary Poppins-esque, I guess. But presumably part of his role was to hire other tutors that would be able to fully educate George on his responsibilities as king.

Joe: So to the best of my knowledge, he did not sing songs about parliamentary seats and the flaws of their democratic system, but hey, who knows? It could have happened, right?

Joe: So James had another more secret job. He was the Pelhams', especially Thomas Pelham-Holles', man on the inside. So his job was to watch Leicester House and report back to the government on the activities of the future king and his family. George II was especially interested in what Princess Augusta was up to and how she was steering the attitudes and beliefs of that future king and of his siblings.

Joe: At this point, Henry Pelham had died, and so Thomas Pelham-Holles is now Prime Minister, just to keep things straight. In November 1754, Thomas asked James Waldegrave to give "Our Address to the King," a speech in the House of Lords that was in response to the King's Speech. But this was interpreted by Princess Augusta as a sign that Waldegrave wasn't really on her side, he was actually on Newcastle's side. And so from this point on, she begins to court John Stuart, the Earl of Bute, for a role on the Junior Court.

Joe: And as he walked in, he was singing under his breath, "Tor-tor-a-ye, tor-tor-a-ye, tor-tor-a-eeee." That does connect back to when we started.

Joe: Fair. So you don't think this was all work and no play. Actually, the Duke of Cumberland would still take James on trips to gamble on horses during this period. So there's a story of him going to Maidenhead in Berkshire County and betting on horses.

Joe: By August 1755, Princess Augusta was setting the stage to push Waldegrave out. She reported in a letter that he was distant to her and that she didn't know him well despite his years of service. She complained that Prince George was not learning well, in part because Waldegrave was not teaching him the things that he wanted. She gave a specific example where Prince George had asked Waldegrave to teach him about the British constitution, but he refused, saying that maybe somebody else should teach him that instead.

Joe: At 17 years old now, Prince George was becoming more involved in politics. A big issue at the time was the funding for the ongoing war, and King George II favored allocating resources to defend Hanover, while William Pitt argued that Britain should focus only on strengthening its own military. We've talked about this a couple times.

Joe: This disagreement created a rift within the government, but Prince George was involved. He and Leicester House supported Pitt's stance — William Pitt — which added pressure on Thomas Pelham-Holles, the Duke of Newcastle, and eventually contributed to the collapse of his government. So all of these things are connected, even when we don't say so in each episode.

Joe: By the custom of the time, Prince George was going to retain a governor until he was 21, but King George II asked Waldegrave to deliver a message that he wanted the young prince to have a, quote, "new establishment" before his 18th birthday.

Joe: What George II was offering him was an allowance of 40,000 pounds a year, so that's about $6 million a year. Why that much? It's a lot of money, but also he's the future king, and it was actually less than what Prince Frederick had been receiving.

Joe: But in exchange for getting this money, Prince George and his brother Prince Edward would have to move out of Leicester House. They would have to move into the King's household at Kensington and St. James's, and their mother had to remain. So their mother would remain in Leicester House. So this was all a way for King George II to try to separate the future George III from the influences of his mother.

Joe: But Prince George sent a reply also using Waldegrave, and he said no, he was going to live in Leicester House with his mother. And what's more, he's going to be the one to decide who's going to be on his staff, not King George II.

Joe: Waldegrave tried to convince him. He said, quote, "It's not meant to take you from your mother, but rather from the nursery." But it wasn't any use.

Joe: On June 14th, 1756, Prince George turned 18. Waldegrave immediately asked to resign. He wrote, quote:

Joe: "I do not presume to claim the least merit from the share I have undertook for some years past, nor from my constant attention and zeal for His Majesty's service. It has been, far from it, been a very disagreeable employment to me, and one in which I entered with reluctance. But as then I thought it necessary, so now I think it equally necessary to quit it."

Joe: "Not to trouble Your Grace with trifling reasons, I am clear in my opinion that as things are now, it would be impossible for me to continue in His Royal Highness's service and to act a part, becoming a man who His Majesty had honored with the title of Governor to the Prince of Wales. Nor am I less certain that in this new employment even my best services would be of very little use."

Joe: King George received his resignation letter and refused it. He would not allow Waldegrave to quit as governor. Although George II refused to allow him to leave, it was a moot point. By October that year, Prince George had taken over deciding who worked in Leicester House. He fired Waldegrave and more or less appointed John Stuart, the Earl of Bute, as governor in his place.

Joe: In reality, King George II did agree to let Waldegrave go, and it's not clear whether that was because of Prince George's firing or coincidental. John Stuart was never officially made his governor, although he would be shortly made the Groom of the Stole, a position that would give him pretty similar influence. The post of governor would remain empty for the remainder of the young prince's minority.

Joe: So none of this is quite as fun as in our Picture This section, but it's a little bit more accurate, I think.

Abram: The Picture This section is sort of like a Shakespeare-style thing because he wasn't exactly telling the truth. He was trying to make it more weird. That's true.

Teller of the Exchequer

Joe: Out of work, but still only 42 years old, the king offered Waldegrave — do you want to retire? If so, I'll give you a pension. And he said, no, I want to stay in public service. So what the king offered him instead was a reversion for a job called Teller of the Exchequer. This basically meant that right now someone has this job, but when he dies, you can have it next. This wasn't a hard job. It was a job in the treasury. It gave a lot of money. It wasn't that influential, but it paid well.

Joe: But while he was unemployed, he didn't just spend his time gambling. He was also spreading rumors, including one that Princess Augusta, the Dowager Princess of Wales, was secretly dating John Stuart, and that that's the reason why he got chosen to be the new governor.

Joe: Of course, her husband was dead, so I don't think it was illegal for her to date or to have a relationship with someone, but it definitely would have been a scandal. And Waldegrave was implying that John Stuart's close relation to the family was actually because he was her secret boyfriend.

Joe: Now most historians today think that this is not true, that he was making this up. It seems very petty, like something you would do, like teasing. William Petty? Not William Petty. We'll put a pin in William Petty, okay. It was petty, but he hated working for her, he hated John Stuart, and making up lies was, I guess, I guess it felt good.

Joe: While Waldegrave awaited that position as the Teller, Newcastle's government was failing. He lost Minorca in May, and Newcastle had resigned in November 1756. William Cavendish had come in, become Prime Minister, but he was struggling to keep a stable government.

Joe: So during this time, Waldegrave and Newcastle, Thomas Pelham-Holles, were remaining in close contact. Thomas sent him a letter, quote, "Begs to represent to my Lord Waldegrave how inadvisable it would be to make any alteration in the present administration 'til the supplies are raised and the inquiry disposed of in some way or another." In other words, don't rock the boat, James. We need to keep this government working for now. The war is too important.

Joe: The current Teller died in February 1757, so he finally could take up his new job. But in May 1757, James was asked to give a speech in Parliament. Basically, George II had asked for a huge one million pounds for the war and he gave a speech in favor of George's high money request. This was to block somebody else who had wanted to only give him 300,000.

Joe: George II really appreciated this speech and it's one of the clear times, one of the few times, that James Waldegrave really emerged as a leader and a good speaker in Parliament. But with the Devonshire government on the verge of collapse, and the negotiations with William Pitt stalled, George II looked to find someone trusted, someone that he trusted, to lead the country. Believing it was time for new leadership, he turned to James Waldegrave and Henry Fox to form a government capable of navigating the crisis.

Prime Minister? (Prime Minister Question Mark)

Joe: On June 8th, 1757, George II appointed James Waldegrave as the First Lord of the Treasury, effectively making him Prime Minister. Henry Fox was going to be the Secretary of State, most likely for the Southern Department, although I think at first he had to be both, and that he would lead the House of Commons.

Joe: The pair began to pull together a government, but they were stymied at every turn. Newcastle-aligned ministers up and down the government resigned in protest of this Fox/Waldegrave appointment. This mass refusal left key positions unfilled, making it impossible to govern.

Joe: Unlike William Pulteney, who we talked about a number of episodes ago, during his brief and unsuccessful attempt at being Prime Minister, he managed to appoint some people and to get a government started. But Waldegrave and Fox found themselves completely isolated. Instead of building a team, they lost more people every day.

Joe: On June 11th, four days into his ministry, James met with King George II. He explained the situation and asked the king to compromise. He asked the king to allow William Pitt to return to government with Thomas Pelham-Holles. And that would be the right way out of the situation.

Joe: Waldegrave at this point remained a Newcastle ally, and his advice to the king may have been what allowed the pair to return to office together later that month and have the great stuff. Right, right.

Joe: Only a day after this audience, George II gave up. Exactly what happened next is a bit unclear. In fact, sources differ on whether James Waldegrave was officially ever made First Lord of the Treasury. While George II gave him the role, the Treasury was never notified of the change, and when William Cavendish reclaimed it, it was almost like he had never left.

Joe: So he's not considered a Prime Minister on the official list. He only lasted four days. We are going to count him because George II counted him, but obviously there's a little bit of ambiguity here.

Joe: William Cavendish is going to be Prime Minister again for only two weeks, because at the end of the two weeks, Thomas Pelham-Holles and William Pitt and George II are going to come to an understanding. And they're going to be able to form their own government, which, as you've said, is going to be really successful. But once again, James Waldegrave was out of a job.

Abram: Done, done, done.

Later Life

Joe: On June 30th, just a day after the king took Waldegrave's advice and allowed Newcastle and Pitt to form a government, he gave James Waldegrave the Order of the Garter.

Abram: Means he gets to order the undies for the knights to have.

Joe: He does. So this is not one of the scheduled times that that was supposed to happen. He wasn't just one on a list, like the king gave it to him and only him. This is considered a great honor. So commenting on the situation, Prince William, King George II's third son, said, quote, "How glad I am that he is not minister, but that he has the Garter." He was a well-liked guy.

Abram: So he is the undies and he's giving it out to the knights?

Joe: We'll say that. That's not true, but we'll say it.

Abram: What is the actual role?

Joe: It's just an honor you receive, like you get to wear a pin for the rest of your life. And if you weren't already a peer, you would get to be called Sir. But since he was a peer, that was already more important than being a knight. It's just one of the great honors that the king can give.

Abram: We'll pretend that he's the one who orders the undies for the knights.

Joe: Sure. For James, his post-Prime Minister life continued. In 1759, he married somebody that you know about. He married Maria Walpole, the niece of Robert Walpole. So he was 44, she was 22. That was a minor scandal at the time, but not that out of the ordinary. And this gave James a place in the interconnected political families at the time.

Joe: This has actually been the third attempt to get him married. Two potential previous marriages had fizzled out in 1755, but thanks to the help of his friend Horace Walpole, he was able to marry into the Walpole family. And in the next three years, they're going to have three children.

King George III

Joe: George II died on October 25th, 1760, turning Prince George into King George III. So James Waldegrave's former ward was king. And while you might have expected that this meant great things were coming, the reality was quite different. His relationship to George III was frosty at best, although James did arrange to return to London as one of the first members of the Privy Council to meet with the young king.

Joe: I mentioned earlier that James skipped George II's funeral, and while I agree that it could be because he wanted to go gambling, it could have also been more personal, right? George II had been his friend, his patron, a person that consistently believed in him, and he was replaced by a new king that really did not. So that couldn't have been easy on the Earl.

Joe: James continued to attend Privy Council meetings, however, with George III for the remainder of his life. Henry Fox continued to advocate for Waldegrave. He may have offered him Lord Lieutenant of Ireland in 1762, but Waldegrave refused. It's unclear whether he officially offered or was just feeling him out. It's hard to say.

Joe: Later, when John Stuart is pushed out as Prime Minister — we're going to discuss that in an upcoming episode — Fox put Waldegrave up as a candidate to be the next Prime Minister for real. And Fox said of him, quote, "A man of strict honor who will go through what he engages in without indiscretion, is by his friends both respected and beloved. He has few enemies and no view to popularity."

Joe: To which George III replied, quote, "He would fairly be but a chip in the porridge." I don't know what a chip in the porridge is, but it doesn't sound like that was a compliment. And in the end, George III did not want to give him Prime Minister.

Abram: If it was George II still in charge, I think he definitely would have gotten it.

Joe: I agree. So who was Prime Minister after John Stuart? George Grenville. Very good.

Joe: James Waldegrave was given more offers. He was offered a role as Ambassador to France. He turned that down. But by April 1763, James Waldegrave had contracted smallpox. This disease was a lot deadlier for older sufferers than it was for younger ones. And while he was 48, he was badly affected by the disease. His health deteriorated rapidly.

Joe: He died on April 28th, 1763. As he had no sons, his brother inherited the earldom and he became the 3rd Earl Waldegrave.

Joe: A couple years later, King George — after the point it would have been recent, I guess — King George III did reveal his true thoughts about his old governor, calling him, quote, "a depraved and worthless man." So I don't think King George liked him very much.

Joe: From 1754 to 1758, James Waldegrave also kept memoirs that closely documented his time as governor and the inner workings of government. Because of the politically sensitive nature of those memoirs, they were given to Horace Walpole when he died, and Horace Walpole held them for his whole life.

Joe: In Horace Walpole's will, they would be given to the current Earl Waldegrave on his 21st birthday. When this finally came around, that Earl largely ignored them until he needed some money, and when he needed money, he decided to sell them. So he sold them in 1821, and they were finally recognized for what an important document about this period in the 1750s they really were.

Joe: I didn't use his memoirs directly because I don't feel qualified to evaluate primary sources. But the biographies that I used in this episode absolutely did pull from them, and they've proven to be a very important resource in the political history and constitutional history of Britain during this period.

Joe: And that is the story of James Waldegrave. It's time to rate him.

Joe: Rating! So our first category is accomplishments, and we can rate him up to 20 points each. So when I think about this, I'm thinking we could use his time as governor, we can use his time as Lord Warden of the Stannaries, we can use his time as Prime Minister, we can use whatever we want.

Abram: Yeah, what my thing is, he did get a lot of roles, but none of them were like too, too important, so I'm gonna give him a 3.

Joe: Yeah, I gotta say, he didn't do the Lord Warden role pretty much at all. He was only Prime Minister for four days and accomplished nothing.

Abram: And the only thing we can really say he did okay was suggesting like the duo to become Prime Minister.

Joe: Yeah, I think there's some points there. I think there's some points for him being governor, but I agree, I don't want to give him more than 3.

Abram: That means he gets 6 points out of 40.

Joe: Not very good. So in disaccomplishments, we can rate him up to -10. So did he unaccomplish anything? And I was thinking about this, and he did reduce the power of the Lord Warden of the Stannaries, so that's kind of like an accomplishment, but not really. I'd give him a 1.

Joe: Yeah, there's not much here either. He neither did a lot of stuff nor did he undo a lot of stuff.

Abram: One point for each of us, so -2. Next is bad personality.

Joe: He gambled a lot, so we can rate him up to -10. His only real scandal is his gambling. He married somebody that was half his age, but that wasn't so bad back then. He skipped George II's funeral.

Abram: Yeah, I don't think he did too many, but I have to give him a 4.

Joe: Four for bad personality. Actually, a 5. I'm going to give him 3.

Abram: So that means he gets a total of -10. I think he's gonna be by far lowest rated.

Joe: So the next category is how interesting he is, and we can rate him on a scale of 1 to 10.

Abram: I think like the part we did at the beginning was meant to be interesting, but that wasn't really actually what happened. I think besides that, his life is slightly interesting. So out of 10, I'll give him a 3.

Joe: Yeah, so I was thinking about this, and like, his dad has a really interesting life. Like, his dad would get a lot of points.

Abram: He has a slightly interesting life.

Joe: Yeah, but James, what did he do, right? How many points did you give him?

Abram: Three, and I recommend you give him 2 so he can have 5.

Joe: Well, I was gonna give him 2 anyway, so 3 points for Abram and 2 for me.

Abram: That means he gets 5 points out of 20.

Joe: So the next is looks. And unfortunately, the printer did not print this. So I'm going to go bring it up very fast. So this is a picture of James Waldegrave.

Abram: Not very good. He has a big nose. He doesn't look good.

Joe: Rating him a 1. He has a wig on. He does have a big nose. I mean, that's a huge nose.

Abram: I think he looks kind of ugly, to be honest.

Joe: He has a sash. He has a little star. I think that's the Order of the Garter. I'm giving him a 1. I'm going to give him — I mean, it is a very bad picture. I'm going to give him a 3. So that means he gets 2.

Joe: So lifespan, how many points does he get?

Abram: He lived to 48, so he gets 4.8.

Joe: And his term, he was Prime Minister for four days. How many points does he get? Let's check. It's not very many. He gets 0.1. No, 0.01.

Abram: He does not get much. Okay, so adding it up, he gets —

Joe: His final score is 7.81. This is by far the lowest. The previous lowest score was Spencer Compton with 22 points. He didn't even come close.

Abram: Mostly because of how much minus he got. If he didn't get any minus, he still wouldn't have beat Spencer. Spencer Compton, which is the crazy thing. He would have been close, but he wouldn't have beaten him.

Joe: So Abram, this isn't the end of our discussion. We still have one very important question.

Abram: Known or ice cream cone?

Joe: He does not have a card in our Prime Minister deck. What do you think? Is he known or is he an ice cream cone?

Abram: Ice cream cone.

Joe: Yeah, I mean, there was no Spencer Compton.

Abram: There's a small argument he could be known. But it was pretty small. Him?

Joe: No way. I mean, we gave William Pulteney an ice cream cone, and he was a pretty successful politician. But James Waldegrave wasn't a successful politician, and he wasn't a successful babysitter. I mean, we are sorry, James Waldegrave. You do not get to be known. You are an ice cream cone.

Abram: We almost had our first negative because of you.

Joe: Yeah, it's hard to get a negative in our scoring system, but you came close. With that, I think we're going to say good night for the evening. We are looking forward to our next episode, which will be on John Stuart, although we may have a surprise special episode before then with Primetime.

Abram: With Primetime, make sure to listen to them if you have the time for Primetime.

Joe: Yes, we may be doing a special wrap-up episode about all of the Prime Ministers under George II with our favorite other Prime Minister podcast.

Abram: We also may be doing our wrap-up episode of the Walpole Era pretty soon.

Joe: Well, I think we're going to combine them. Yeah. In any event, that's it for me.

Abram: Say good night, Abram. Good night.

Bibliography

Joe: Before jumping into the bibliography, I need to provide some credits for several friends that participated in our skit at the beginning. If you liked what we did, please let us know. It's the first time we've ever tried something like this. It was a lot of fun, a little bit less serious perhaps, but Abram had a blast and he can't stop talking about it. So I feel pretty good as a dad right now.

Joe: Of course, we had Abram playing Prince George. His Uncle Dave played the former governor, Simon Harcourt. Dave is Instagram famous, and you can find him @davezackin on Instagram. He does amazing art, some of which I cannot show Abram because it has dirty words on it, but we love him anyway. Cousin Eliot played Prince Edward, and I played everyone else.

Joe: In terms of sources, our primary source this time was The Memoirs and Speeches of James, the 2nd Earl Waldegrave, edited by J.C.D. Clark in 1988. Now, this is mostly a book of his memoirs, but Clark provided an extremely detailed, extremely well-written biography that made the backbone of most of this episode. That was augmented by other sources, including the James Waldegrave entry in the 1885 edition of the Dictionary of National Biography.

Joe: As usual, our editor is Samuel Cunningham, who probably never thought that he'd be editing this kind of podcast. And for that, I am both grateful and apologize. You can find him at samc_production on Fiverr. Next time, it'll be John Stuart, the Earl of Bute, or possibly a special episode. We will see. See you then.

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