Prime Factors - Ranking UK Prime Ministers

7.1 - George Grenville (Part 1)

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7.1 - George Grenville (Part 1)

Episode Transcript

Abram: Welcome to Prime Factors. This week, George Grenville, Part 1.

Parliament: Hip hip! Hurrah! Hip hip! Hurrah! Hip hip! Hurrah!

Abram: Hello, and welcome back to Prime Factors. I'm Abram, and I'm here with my dad. We are reviewing all the British prime ministers from Robert Walpole to Keir Starmer. This is episode 7.1, George Grenville, Part 1.

Joe: We aren't in Canada. We tried to be in Canada, but we do hope to be there next time when we wrap up George Grenville and record it in Grenville. I've been in touch with people in Grenville.

Abram: Yes, they do speak French, but I assume they also speak English.

Joe: So it appears. But for reasons that might become obvious anyway, nobody was naming towns for George Grenville during this portion of his life.

Abram: Unless you're in Canada, I guess.

Joe: I guess even in Canada.

Abram: Don't forget that you can find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and at www.primefactorspodcast.com. We're also on Facebook and Bluesky. If you enjoyed listening, please like, subscribe, comment, and review. We only like 5-star reviews though, so please don't give us 1-star.

Joe: We've only gotten 5 stars so far, so they've all been great. As we jump into George Grenville, Abram, I want you to be paying special attention to one thing, and that is family. This isn't just Grenville's story, but the story of how he was lifted up and ultimately escaped the pull of his family. Just don't get any ideas. You're still 11.

Abram: What does that mean?

Joe: I don't know. So, Abram, I have for you a bell, which you've already shown. So anytime in this episode where we talk a lot about George Grenville and his family, you can ring the bell and hopefully it doesn't become too annoying.

Abram: So this is the family bell.

Joe: That is the family bell. Oh dear, I'm going to regret this. So George Grenville, he is not just a politician that lucked into office, passed the universally hated Stamp Act, and then resigned. He has an amazing story, and I'm really excited to share it with you.

Picture This

Joe: We open our scene on a crisp autumn night in Buckinghamshire, looking over a stately red-bricked mansion in the countryside. The waxing crescent moon shines a little light on the countryside. The date: October 3rd, 1761. The Seven Years' War is raging, and the house below us is Wotton House. The stately family home of future Prime Minister George Grenville.

Abram: You said family.

Joe: All at once, a single horse gallops up the long drive of the house. A driver's outstretched lantern lights the only illumination on the scene. We can just hear the sound of the gate bell being rung by the gate watchman announcing this surprise overnight visitor. He rushes to the front entry, dismounts his horse, and begins pounding on the thick wooden door.

Joe: Inside the house, a porter, roused by the sound of the bell, sprints to open the door, while another goes to awaken and fetch the butler. The door is swung open to reveal a royal courier, his heavy cloak revealing his silver badge and leather pouch underneath. This is not the staff's first time seeing such a courier. It was wartime after all, and Grenville was an important government minister, but rarely so soon after midnight.

Joe: The butler, still tugging a cloak over his dressing gown, examines the wax seal on the courier's letter and begins to ask a porter to rouse Mr. Grenville, but the honourable master is already descending the stairs in his burgundy dressing gown. He takes the letter — it's crisp and weighty in his hand — and pauses only momentarily to admire Lord Bute's wax seal before opening and reading it. His face turns ashen.

Joe: Grenville turns to his butler. "Summon the household! I need breakfast at once, and our strongest tea. Have a post-chaise ready immediately. My presence is commanded in London."

Joe: The house explodes into activity as George is dressed and fed. Fires are stoked, the kitchen is readied. Within minutes, George sits in his parlour with a bread roll in one hand and the letter in the other, reading it over again. A silver tray with tea sits nearby.

Joe: Mrs. Grenville speaks. "What is it, dear? What is it so sudden that we are awake before the birds?" "It's Pitt again, of course, and I suspect it's serious this time, given how much Lord Bute needs to flatter me at two in the morning." He adjusts his voice into Lord Bute's high formal register. "The high opinions I have of you, the warmest friendship I feel for you, and the entire confidence I place in you." "But, sir —"

Joe: A footman enters and signals that the post-chaise has arrived. George throws on his cloak and takes one last draught of tea before returning to the flagstone great hall and the home's main entrance. In minutes, the lamp-lit facade of Wotton House recedes behind him as the fast carriage rumbles towards London.

Joe: Inside the carriage, Grenville tries to snatch a moment's sleep, but his mind churns thinking of the war. He knew more than most the pain and the loss of war, even wars fought far from our home shores. Lantern-lit stops at Aylesbury and Amersham allow for quick change of horses as the villages and fields sped away behind them.

Joe: Just outside of Amersham, Grenville's driver slows to allow another carriage, also driving with haste, to pass in the other direction. But Grenville peers out and recognition dawns on his face. "Driver! That's my brother's coach! Wave them down, please!"

Joe: Both carriages halt by a hedgerow shining with morning dew. The sun is just beginning to rise now, making Lord Temple's crest on the side of the carriage gleam. Lord Temple's coachman opens the carriage door and bids George to enter. Sitting inside is Richard Grenville-Temple, the Earl Temple and currently Lord Privy Seal to George III. His fine coat bears splashes of mud, and the worry lines on his brow mirror George's own. The brothers embrace and then sit opposite.

Joe: "Dick, you're abroad so early. I've been summoned by Lord Bute on behalf of the King. Some urgent matter, though I scarcely know what."

Abram: Have you not heard? William Pitt has resigned. The foul Scotsman refused to move against Spain despite our pleas. The Bourbon Family Compact will draw them into the war. Pitt is out, and I fear that I too cannot remain in this accursed government much longer.

Joe: Pitt resigned? So abruptly? It's hardly the first time with him, but now? And must you go with him?

Abram: I will not be in a ministry that ignores the dangers on the seas. You and I both know that our Navy is the key to victory. Pitt wanted a first strike before Spain joins France. But Bute wants peace. He is a fool. I stand with Pitt. James too. We Grenvilles go to the opposition.

Joe: George pauses for a moment and realizes what his brother is saying. "But, but I — I owe service to His Majesty. If Spain comes against us, we'll defend ourselves. But — but to attack first, that might brand us aggressors."

Abram: Hmph! Then you would side with that Tory over us? Where is the Grenville who fought so fiercely for our sailors' well-being? Where is my brother that cried at Thomas's funeral? This war was Pitt's masterpiece, and you let him leave without protest?

Joe: "I cannot!" Their eyes lock, a lifetime of shared history hanging between them. Memories of childhood, of nights debating naval policy, and of their lost brother.

Abram: Is their lost brother Thomas?

Joe: Yes.

Abram: Aw.

Joe: Richard's determination hardens.

Abram: We are done then. Go, serve the King. I will do what I must to save our family's honour.

Joe: George climbs out of the carriage and stands in the muddy road, stunned. The chill that descended was more than just the frosty weather.

Joe: By midday, George Grenville arrives in London. Over the next frantic days, he keeps with Lord Bute and George III. The corridors at St. James's Palace buzz with whispers. William Pitt is out. Who will replace him? It won't be George Grenville. George refuses the honour, instead suggesting his brother-in-law, Lord Egremont. It would be too painful for him, too damaging to his family for him to take the other brother-in-law Pitt's place.

Joe: Eventually, Bute arrives with an offer that he cannot refuse.

Adam: Your loyalty matters greatly to His Majesty, Mr. Grenville. Someone must steer the Commons now that Pitt is gone, and we believe you are the man for the task. Your King and country need you. Please consider it.

Joe: George considers carefully before stretching out his arm towards Lord Bute. They grasp hands. The deal is sealed.

Joe: A few days later, George Grenville arrives at his brother's London residence. Though Temple's primary seat is the grand estate of Stowe in Buckinghamshire, he returns to his London townhouse for official business. A polished black door sits atop a short flight of stone steps flanked by flickering lanterns. The Temple family crest is discreetly engraved above the door.

Joe: Grenville raps the brass knocker. Footmen in neat livery exchange uneasy looks, but eventually the household's chief butler appears. "Please, please inform the Earl Temple that his brother George Grenville has come to speak with him."

Joe: The butler speaks, but with a cool formality. "His Lordship regrets that he is not receiving you, sir. I am to say he does not wish to see you now, or indeed any time henceforth."

Joe: Grenville exhales, as though the blow to his heart is physical. He starts to speak, but the butler closes the door with a decisive click. Grenville stands on the stoop, the patter of rain blending with the clatter of carriage wheels in the street. Their bond of brotherhood was broken. George wondered what would happen next.

Abram: That's sad. But did you expect me to do the family thing?

Joe: No, and I have no idea what accent Richard has. He has such a funny aristocratic accent.

Ancestry

Joe: Abram, I hope you enjoyed that little story. We don't always get such personal moments with our prime ministers, but that narrative that I just gave you actually comes from a memoir, a brief one written by Mrs. Elizabeth Grenville herself. So George Grenville's wife wrote that, obviously based on stuff that George told her. She wrote that a few years later. I just love this idea that they had passed on the street and had this grand confrontation, and I hope it's even true.

Abram: Probably is.

Joe: Yeah, but before we begin with George Grenville, let's look at where he came from. The Grenville family, it's old, but only a locally prominent one. They had an estate near the village of Wotton Underwood in Buckinghamshire since around the 1100s, but few of them were ever important or more than locally important. They were like the biggest family in the village, maybe, but it wasn't very important. A George Grenville that was probably an ancestor failed to win an election for Parliament in 1685. And never tried again. So they were maybe a big fish in a small pond, but maybe they were just like a medium fish.

Abram: I think, yeah, they're a big family for like the county, but nothing grander than that, I'm guessing.

Joe: Yeah. So those that know British history better than we do will say that there was a very famous Richard Grenville who was a privateer in the 1500s, but there is no known connection between the Cornwall Grenvilles and the Buckinghamshire Grenvilles, at least none within recorded history, none that I've been able to find. And Grenville is a very relatively simple last name — Green-Ville, Green Villager. I don't think they're related.

Joe: We know that George Grenville's grandfather was a knight. He was born around 1646, and his dad was Richard Grenville, born around 1678.

Abram: But wait, is Grenville one of the ones that's like related to Compton as like distant cousins or something? I think Compton's related to Perceval, who's related to Grenville, I think.

Joe: So on my original prime minister family tree, I do not have a connection that puts Grenville on it. I've been able to connect Pulteney and Cavendish and John Stuart and Thomas Pelham-Holles and Henry Pelham and Robert Walpole and James Waldegrave. But I've not been able to find any direct connections from his family to the prime ministers at this point, right? Maybe in the future they marry into the family, but —

Abram: But I think it's through Spencer Perceval, who's in 1810, where they get to there.

Joe: Yeah, so they're not related yet, but those families might be related. But by 1704, the family was just starting to come into prominence. This is the year when George's family had become wealthy enough to build Wotton House, which is the manor that's going to become the seat of the Grenville clan and where our little Picture This just took place.

Joe: By this point, the Grenville landholdings were generating around £3,000 a year or $1 million a year. So the family was well off, but not big money. The thing that helped the family gain prominence was marrying into the nearby Temple family. The Temples had been members of Parliament and baronets for generations.

Abram: Wait, is there a way to — Henry John Temple, put a pin in him.

Joe: That's a good question. I do not know if he's related.

Abram: I imagine he is, but yeah, I think everyone's related eventually.

Joe: It does seem that these wealthy, semi-noble, wanting-to-be-noble families all marry into each other. So the Temple family had been MPs and baronets for generations. But that's not that much compared to the earls and dukes that we usually encounter in our podcast. But that was a lot for the Grenville family.

Joe: And then it gets creepy because George's dad also marries into the Temple family, his cousin Hester Temple. So I have a picture here of the Grenville family tree. You will notice that the left-hand side —

Abram: And we'll put this up on our YouTube —

Joe: No, their family tree is literally a circle.

Abram: Part of it is.

Joe: Yes, part of it is a circle. So they married into the Temple family. Both George's grandfather and George's father both married into the Temple family, and they were cousins. It is a little bit icky, but apparently this was all just the way the Temple family works, because if you look on the right-hand side of this graphic —

Abram: This guy, I think he doesn't know that it's called a church.

Joe: Abram is pointing at a person whose name is Christian Temple, and you think that should be called a church.

Abram: Okay, because it should be. Isn't that — isn't it called a church?

Joe: It is called a church. So if you look on the right-hand side, you'll notice that I have the Lyttelton family, who's going to be very close to the Grenville family as well, and we'll talk about them more in a little bit. And they also married Temples at multiple generations. We see Sir Charles Lyttelton marrying Anne Temple, and then his son marrying Christian Temple.

Joe: The important thing that I want to get to right now is that the Grenvilles and the Temples are super close. And by super close, I mean really disturbingly close.

Joe: On September 27th, 1711, Richard and Hester Grenville welcomed their first child, a son they named Richard, but the family is going to call him Dick. The young Richard's birth was very difficult, and Hester almost died. So when she got pregnant again a few months later, Richard, the elder one, decided to pack up his family for London and have his next child born there. And October 14th, 1712, in a house near St. Martin's in Westminster, George Grenville was born.

Silver Spoons

Joe: This is, of course, our custom to look at the silver spoons, how well off the family was when a member of the clan is born. For young George, his family was well off but not prominent. His paternal grandfather had been knighted, but his dad at this point had not yet had a chance to really make a name for himself. Fortunately, the Temple side was more regarded, and his maternal grandfather had been a baronet.

Joe: But there is someone to pay attention to here, and in fact, I have coloured him in special on this, and that is George Grenville's uncle, Richard Temple, 1st Viscount Cobham. Yes, although not a viscount quite yet. This Richard Temple, I want you to pay attention to him. He had inherited his baronet title from his father. He had already at this point had a brilliant military career, rising all the way to being a Lieutenant General, and he was a member of Parliament. He was the powerhouse of the family. So we're going to watch him closely.

Joe: With those connections, George Grenville only scores 7 silver spoons. That makes him better connected than only Robert Walpole and William Pulteney, and arguably more than James Waldegrave. But of course, James Waldegrave was a well-connected family that just happened to be Catholic, so we knocked him down some points. So let's see what he does next.

Early Life

Joe: George Grenville's early life was dominated by his growing family and their growing influence. His younger brother James, called Jemmy around the family, was born in 1715, followed by Henry, 1717, Thomas, 1719, and Hester, the sister, in 1720.

Joe: But the biggest political strides in the family, however, were made by his uncle Richard Temple. He became Baron Cobham in 1714 and then Viscount Cobham in 1718. Remember that name Cobham? It's going to be super important in just a minute. And since peers are referred to by their peerage name, we're going to start calling him Uncle Cobham or just Cobham for clarity. Cobham's a place, not a name.

Joe: With his brother-in-law's help, George's father also enters into politics. He loses his first election in 1713 to become an MP for Buckingham. But with Uncle Cobham's help, he squeaks by in a tight election to be the MP of Wendover in 1715. This is a huge break for the family, finally placing them on the national stage. And then he'll win the election in Buckingham in 1722. I don't know how really close it was because I think most of these were corruptly controlled, but the voting process helps the government go around.

Abram: Government go around.

Joe: So around 1725, these rising young aristocrats were able to send both George and his older brother Richard to Eton. Notably, they were not the upper crust there. They had to have lodging in the town nearby rather than at the school itself. Why? It seemed to be that if you lived in the school, you had to be like super duper rich, like a duke or an earl's kid. And if you were lower class but still very much upper class, you were allowed — or something. Well, I mean, in this case, they weren't even that. They were just a wealthy family from Buckinghamshire that they could go to the school, but they had to stay at a boarding house outside the school.

Joe: We don't know a lot about George's time at school. One of the biographies that I read described him as, quote, "neither indolent nor dull," but also, quote, "diligent to the point of drudgery." He was an intellectual kid. He did not enjoy sports. He did attend at the same time as John Stuart, who was a year younger, and William Pitt, who was four years older. But it's not known whether they were ever in the same social circles. But this is kind of the school for socially connected aristocrats. So who knows?

Joe: But on February 17th, 1727, George and Richard's father died. George was 14. His brother was 15.

Joe: They had a saving grace, an angel, a family angel that they could turn to. Their Uncle Cobham. Uncle Cobham and his wife had not yet been able to have children, and in fact, they're never going to have a child that lives longer than four. They are going to have a really difficult time with their own children. So Uncle Cobham and his wife quickly pretty much adopted the whole Grenville family as their own.

Joe: Uncle Cobham was especially fond of his sister Hester, who was George and Richard's mother, and even arranged by a special remainder for her and her family to inherit the Viscount Cobham title if he were to die without children. Now, George will be close to Uncle Cobham, but his brother Richard will be even closer. So we'll see how that affects our story.

Joe: But with their father dead, George and Richard both inherited some of the family estates, although most of the money remained with their mother. George inherited about £3,000, another million today. But his brother is going to control his finances, and he's only going to give him £120 a year to live on.

Abram: So maybe $30,000 or something like this? $30,000. A lot.

Joe: It is a lot, but it's not enough to live on for a year for many people. As usual, Richard would not only get the lion's share, but he was also expected to take up his father's seat in Buckingham when he became of age. But he's only 16. He can't enter Parliament yet.

Joe: During school holidays, the family would stay at Uncle Cobham's mansion in Stowe, instead of the Grenville mansion at Wotton, and they basically were just adopted into the Cobham family.

Joe: By 1729, George was ready to graduate from Eton. He was proudly called the "second oppedant," and I don't know if I'm pronouncing that word right, meaning that he was the second-best student that year of the students that lived off campus.

Abram: Hmm.

Joe: We don't know how good he was relative to the students that lived on campus, the ultra-rich kids. But we know of the students that didn't live on campus, he was the second best. Is that good? I think. It's really hard to like — how do I figure out what that means? I don't know. But he thought it was good. He was proud of it.

Joe: After leaving Eton, George initially enrolled in Christ Church in Oxford because he wanted to join the clergy. But after three months and some time to think it over over the Christmas holidays, he withdrew and with his uncle's encouragement, if not his help, enrolled at the Inner Temple to be a lawyer instead.

Joe: This is the first time he was separated from his brother. And one of the great things that we see in these biographies is that there's just lots of letters back and forth between George and Richard. George is like complaining about college and Richard is — I didn't tell you what Richard was doing. Richard during this time is on a grand tour.

Abram: Of course he's on a grand tour.

Joe: Everyone's on a grand tour. Well, George didn't go on a grand tour.

Abram: Oh, that's illegal.

Joe: Richard got himself a tutor and travelled to France and Italy and Switzerland. He's basically on a tour of Europe.

Abram: By Europe, do you mean Western Europe or Eastern Europe?

Joe: I mean, four years in Switzerland, Italy, and France. That is where he spent four years learning with his tutor instead of going to college. I think that's a little unfair. Richard got to explore, well, the world in some sense of the word, and George, you know where he got to go? College. London.

Falling Out With Walpole

Joe: The most important event in the young Grenvilles' lives didn't even involve them. By 1733, just to recap, George II was on the throne. Robert Walpole had been in power as the de facto Prime Minister for twelve years, and Uncle Cobham's been serving all this time in the House of Lords. He's a Whig and he's a longtime supporter of Robert Walpole.

Joe: But you might remember in 1733 we had something called the Excise Crisis. Robert Walpole wanted to increase the taxes on wine and tobacco and basically change it so that the rich got taxed less and the poor got taxed more. I think this was one of the topics in our first episode, and Uncle Cobham refused to support Robert Walpole during the Excise Tax Crisis.

Joe: Walpole was so angry at him that he stripped away Richard's semi-honorary colonel role. So remember, Richard had been a Lieutenant General in the military, and after he left the military, he was still allowed to be a colonel in, I guess, an honorary unit. And Robert Walpole took it away from him.

Joe: And this was a huge insult to Uncle Cobham. I mean, he had fought for Britain during the War of Spanish Succession, and now this upstart commoner is going to tell him that he can't be a colonel. He needed to get even. So Uncle Cobham began to stitch together his own allies and factions, building them against Walpole. It was going to take some time, but revenge was best served cold.

Joe: Meanwhile, Uncle Cobham is still dominating every aspect of the Grenvilles' lives. His first steps are with Richard. He helps Richard find a wife as well as helping him start on his own political career. In 1734, Richard becomes an MP in Buckingham.

Joe: For George, he supported his legal career. In 1734, George went to Lincoln's Inn, which is a related law school, and he officially became a lawyer in November 1735. And he rented a law office actually near the Inner Temple in London.

Joe: And George, from what we can tell, became the Grenville/Temple family lawyer. There is no evidence that he took any other clients, but there are many, many letters from George to his brother and his uncle and others about the family's legal matters.

Joe: So George became the family's lawyer, and his workload was so high that in one of the letters to his brother, George asked Richard to hurry up and have kids so that one of them could study law and help him.

Joe: Obviously, this is a joke, but this is very important because Richard was about to marry Anna Chambers. She was the heiress of the Earl of Berkeley's family. We don't need to care about them, but they're rich. Richard is going to become more rich. You know, this family is just gaining in prominence.

Joe: So shortly after Richard and Anna married, Uncle Cobham decided that he was going to grant Richard his full inheritance, even over any children that he might have in the future. At this point, Uncle Cobham was 61, and it did not seem likely he would have any children. But it is a remarkable statement of how close Richard and his uncle had become and how much his uncle saw Richard as his protégé, his adopted son, his heir.

Joe: In honour of this, Richard is eventually going to name himself Richard Grenville-Temple, essentially just fully absorbing himself into the Temple family, just like another person that we know did something like that, right? Thomas Pelham-Holles.

Joe: So in the fall of 1736, we get another example of how close the Grenville family was. George Grenville came down with something that may have been tuberculosis, and he travelled to Bath to recover. And we have some other letters from Richard to his wife just talking about how much he worries about his brother and worries about his family.

Joe: But by 1741, Uncle Cobham's plan to take down Walpole was beginning to come to fruition. The War of Jenkins' Ear kicked off and Walpole was at his lowest point. It was time to strike. But to strike, Uncle Cobham needed weapons, more MPs in Parliament. He asked George Grenville to pack up his law career, much to the dismay of other family members, and for him to run for Parliament at Buckingham. He does the same for his younger brother James, as well as lining up the support of other friends and cousins.

Joe: He was forming a new faction of Whigs, sometimes called the "Boy Patriots," but often known simply as "Cobham's Cubs."

A *Cough* Cobham *Cough* Cub

Joe: Let's talk about James Grenville for a second. That's his younger brother. Do you know where he was elected as an MP for with the help of his Uncle Cobham? Old Sarum.

Abram: Old Sarum, Gatton, Newtowne, East Looe, Dunwich, Plympton Erle!

Joe: Yes, indeed, it is one of the rottenest of rotten boroughs.

Joe: But James wasn't the only one getting a seat. Here is a picture of the Cobham Cubs. Some of the ones are now, some of the ones are a little bit later. This will be up on our Bluesky as well.

Joe: So basically, through various alliances, what we have is the Temple family connected to the Grenville family connected to the Pitt family connected to the Lyttelton family connected with eventually even the Nedham family. And I count five Grenvilles, two Pitts, one Lyttelton, and one Nedham. All of them are either siblings, siblings-in-law, or cousins. And so sometimes this is called the "Cousinhood."

Joe: So we had a situation where Uncle Cobham was really pissed off at Walpole. He is using his money to get as many of his relatives and backers into office as possible, and that includes George and his brother.

Joe: So on January 21st, 1742, George Grenville gave his very first speech in Parliament. He called for an investigation into Walpole's mismanagement of the war. Horace Walpole would later claim that that was one of the three best speeches of the day. The other two good speeches were William Pulteney and William Pitt. Clearly he was in pretty good company.

Abram: What do you mean by the best speeches?

Joe: On that day, January 21st, when they were having hearings about Walpole's mismanagement, a whole bunch of members of Parliament gave speeches either supporting Walpole or tearing him down. According to Horace Walpole, who is of course biased — Horace Walpole doesn't really get along with his dad — so the three best speeches that day were all anti-Walpole speeches. William Pulteney, William Pitt, and George Grenville. Now, he might have been biased, but the idea is that George Grenville has started his —

Abram: If he's biased, is he biased against Walpole? Yes, he's biased against — even though they're like related?

Joe: Yes. How? Someday we should talk about Horace Walpole in more detail. He is — some people think that he's not even really Walpole's kid. It's a complicated situation. I'll look it up and I'll explain it in the next episode, I think.

Joe: But Horace Walpole's a very interesting guy. He is one of the great writers of the era that talks a lot about prime ministers, and we've basically heard from him on almost every one of our previous episodes at least once.

Joe: So it wasn't just because of the Cobham Cubs, but thanks to all of the Whig opposition, right? So we have the Cobham Cubs, we have William Pulteney's faction, we have all the terrible mismanagement that was happening in the War of Jenkins' Ear. But Walpole did finally fall, and he fell less than a month after that speech, with Spencer Compton taking his place as the second Prime Minister.

Joe: But George wasn't around for that. His big day at the House of Commons was such a big day for him that for whatever reason, his tuberculosis came back, and it came back in a serious way. Instead of just going to Bath where he had gone before, he travelled to France to healing waters near Aix-en-Provence in southern France. He didn't make it at first. He actually ended up stuck in Avignon for a while because he just got too sick to travel. But the point is that George Grenville didn't even get to bask in this great victory because he was too ill.

Joe: While in France, he continued exchanging letters with his family back home. And his brother Richard was acting as something like a medical proxy. They would relay information about how he was doing to his doctor in London. And weirdly, his doctor in London reported that November through his brother Richard that he was healthy enough to return to London. So his doctor is like, "I can't even see you. You're in France, but I think you're fine to come back." So he came back to London that November.

Joe: But at this point, Uncle Cobham had set his sights on his next target, not Spencer Compton. He didn't think Spencer Compton was very powerful. He thought Spencer Compton was not even a real Prime Minister, perhaps. But he set his sights on trying to get rid of Lord Carteret. He saw Lord Carteret as the real threat. Obviously, Spencer Compton didn't stay around very long. He died. Henry Pelham became Prime Minister. But even in the early days of Henry Pelham, Lord Carteret was still like very much involved in the government.

Abram: Didn't he like stop in like 1747 or something?

Joe: I don't remember the exact date. So like towards the beginning of Pelham. Yeah, but unfortunately George was still sick. Having tried the healing waters in Bath, having tried the healing waters in France, he made his third attempt. He travelled to Scotland.

Abram: I don't know where he went. Apparently — why does he need to go to healing waters?

Joe: I don't understand it.

Abram: Wouldn't it be worse if he travelled and he should just be in bed?

Joe: I don't think they had a really solid grasp of medicine at the time.

Abram: But do you know what I mean? That would've made more sense to just stay in bed nowadays.

Joe: Yes, I think so. So he went to Moffat perhaps in Scotland, but we don't know. We know that he spent some time in Edinburgh. We know that then he returned to London.

Joe: But around this time, we have an interesting event that will help us to introduce another younger brother, Thomas Grenville. Thomas was the fifth son, and he joined the Navy. And by 1742, he was the captain of HMS Romney. But at the time, being in the Navy during war especially was a little like being a pirate. Arr, matey.

Joe: So Thomas and his ship managed to capture a French ship that was carrying Spanish cargo from Veracruz worth £130,000, or like $60 million today. This is something that they called a "prize." Like, if a captain in war captured a ship from their opponent, they could get paid for it, like a lot of money.

Joe: But Britain wasn't at war with France. Britain was at war with Spain. So he had just captured a French ship that contained Spanish cargo, and he's like, "It counts, it counts." But they weren't sure it counted.

Joe: So what did Thomas do? He knew a lawyer in the family and he contacted George Grenville to be his lawyer to say —

Abram: Isn't that not allowed in the US? It is so corrupt. It is like, no, you shouldn't be doing this.

Joe: But the point is, he contacted his lawyer, George Grenville. George said, "Don't worry, I'll talk to the Attorney General, but I'll talk to the Attorney General if you give me a cut of any money you receive." And so they negotiated something like one-thirtieth that George Grenville would receive if his brother was able to get it.

Joe: Now the trick is, I don't know what happened next. I do not know whether Thomas was allowed to claim that French ship that he accidentally captured while they were at war with Spain. I don't know whether he was not allowed to get paid for it. I think he probably did get paid for it because he's going to add George to his will as maybe a little bit of a thank you. But there's no solid evidence — that I can find — whether Thomas got money for this ship that he accidentally captured or not.

Abram: Hmm.

Joe: By this point, George Grenville was again healthy enough to participate in the debates. The Cobham Cubs were entirely fighting against Carteret at this time. Remember, Carteret and George II wanted to support Hanover. In fact, Carteret spoke German. He would visit with George II in Hanover. And Grenville called to have the, quote, "electoral separated from the regal dominions." He's basically making it clear that Hanover is not part of England. We shouldn't be supporting them, even if Hanover is under the king.

Abram: And why did Hanover never unite with England? I don't know. I feel like it kind of should.

Joe: Well, it's not going to be around that much longer.

Abram: Does it get destroyed during, like, George IV?

Joe: It doesn't get destroyed. The Electorate of Hanover does not pass to Victoria because a woman isn't allowed to rule there. And so a different relative —

Abram: And then, like, in the 1860s, it fell apart.

Joe: I don't know enough about the unification process of Germany to be able to tell you exactly when that happened.

Abram: But if they united, would it probably have been under England or Hanover? Which one would be in charge?

Joe: Well, England was a kingdom at this point in time. Great Britain, because it became Great Britain in 1707. So, and Hanover was just an electorate, so that's like a lower level type of thing.

Abram: But I assume that England would probably be the dominant one.

Joe: Yeah, but the point is George Grenville wanted there to be a clear separation from the matters that affect Great Britain, from the matters that affect Hanover. And eventually, they were in fact able to kick Carteret out.

Abram: So they're doing a lot of damage here.

Joe: They are. But I want to be a little bit clear. I am not sure how much of this George Grenville is doing. Uncle Cobham has all the power, has all of these cousins all working for him.

Abram: And George Grenville's just one of the many?

Joe: And George Grenville's one of the many. Now, a prominent one. He was clearly a good speaker. He was a prominent one. He's going to get some more jobs. William Pitt and Richard Grenville, his older brother, are probably the two number one and number two. Whether Pitt's number one or Grenville's number one. And then I think third would be George.

Abram: What about the uncle guy? Is he first?

Joe: Well, the uncle guy is first, first. So we got to give him a lot of credit. Perhaps that, like, they were able to get Walpole out, they were able to get Carteret out, but it's not really Grenville. It's not his choices. It's not his actions. He's just listening to his uncle.

Lord of the Admiralty

Joe: With Pelham in charge now that Carteret's out, Pelham then forms something you might remember called the "Broad Bottomed" ministry. He wanted all those opposition Whig groups to come together and to form a cohesive government with everybody. And this meant for the first time that Uncle Cobham and his cubs could have offices.

Joe: Well, almost. William Pitt, and we've mentioned this so many times, William Pitt was a troublemaking annoyance that got on everyone's nerves. He was also really good at his job, but Pelham didn't really like him and he did not get offered a job. So when Henry Pelham offered George Grenville to be Lord of the Admiralty, George refused. He said that he would take no role unless his friend Pitt was included in the government.

Joe: Richard Grenville begged him to take the job. Uncle Cobham begged him.

Abram: So he's going against his own faction?

Joe: Well, he's basically saying, "I'm not going to take a good job unless my friend William Pitt, who is also in our faction, gets a job too." In fact, let me say what he said exactly. Quote, "As Pitt was not included in this arrangement, I declined the offer and earnestly begged Lord Cobham to excuse me, the only reasons for which were my friendship to Mr. Pitt and my apprehension of family uneasiness."

Joe: Eventually, Uncle Cobham figured out how to get George to do it. He asked George's mother for help. So Hester Grenville, George's mother, called up her son one day. And we don't know what she said, but she convinced George to accept the role as Lord of the Admiralty, essentially as a board member on an important Navy commission. And he did because he listened to his mom.

Joe: It gave him a nice salary also, something like $360,000 US today, £1,000 at the time a year. George also became the spokesman in the Commons for the Admiralty Board. So whenever anyone needed to talk about what the board was doing or planning in Parliament, that was his job.

Joe: As soon as he got this job, he actually received a pretty funny letter from his brother Richard. One of the biographies that I read said that this letter was a joke, and the other — well, it didn't say it was a joke. Richard said, quote, "Provide a most excellent station for poor Tom, that if the public be not benefited by your administration, that your family at least may."

Joe: So it's about, use your job to help your brother, benefit your family. You know, we would call that corruption today.

Joe: So the cousins and Uncle Cobham still wanted Pitt in government, but they agreed to wait and bide their time. Uncle Cobham was at this point about 70 years old, and increasingly the management of the faction was given to Richard, with George as the family spokesman. So like, Richard is the one in charge and George is the spokesman.

Abram: Is he the one like giving speeches?

Joe: Yes. And that's often because Pitt, while very much a part of the faction, often seemed unable to behave himself and sometimes disagreed publicly with the rest of the family.

Joe: Pitt was a tricky guy. George would complain later that, quote, "During all this time, I still continued giving my support to Mr. Pitt, notwithstanding the many public proofs I received of his indifference, coldness, and slight of every wish of mine. And yet he gave me the strongest professions of his friendship."

Joe: So Pitt would always tell George how much of a friend he was, and George would act like a good friend to Pitt. But he didn't always feel like Pitt was a good friend back. I really hope to learn more about this when we study Pitt in detail in just two more prime ministers. Because I don't understand him very well. He really runs hot and cold, even with his friends.

Joe: You probably remember where this is going next. Uncle Cobham and the group continued to pressure Henry Pelham and the King to let William Pitt in government. George II refused. The Pelhams and the cousins all resigned. That led to two days of William Pulteney. He failed. He gave up. And then finally, William Pitt was allowed to have at least a small role.

Joe: So after the next reshuffle, Pitt was something small related to Ireland. James Grenville, the younger brother, was now added to the Board of Trade. Henry Grenville was made the Governor of Barbados.

Abram: Wait, so they're the common people now, like the main faction?

Joe: They're not the main faction, but they're pretty —

Abram: Like one of the biggest factions.

Joe: They're pretty powerful under Henry Pelham. So George didn't get any promotions in this reshuffle, however. And that upset him. He said, quote, "Thus I continued in the same office until Mr. Pelham's death, giving what support I was able to those who never gave any to me."

Joe: So sad. At this point, Uncle Cobham retired from politics. He turned over control of his faction to Richard and to William Pitt.

Abram: So what happened to the Cobham people?

Joe: Well, they're still going to remain a faction. They're just going to be led by Richard.

Abram: Are they not quite as big now or something?

Joe: They don't quite have Uncle Cobham's money, but that's going to change in a couple minutes, so we'll get there.

The Sad Story of Captain Thomas Grenville

Joe: Since last we heard from Captain Thomas, he was in the Navy. The Navy! George was proud of his brother, remarking in one letter that they were both seamen together, although George only captained a desk in London. The cousins looked out for Thomas. In 1746, they successfully ran him for the House of Commons in Bridport. Although he was still captaining a ship at the time — it was still war — and I don't know that he ever stepped foot in Bridport or the Commons, but he is officially an MP now, and now he's considered one of the cousins.

Joe: George did his best to look out for his brother. As the War of Austrian Succession continued, George used his role on the board to try to keep his brother out of intensive action and to keep him doing single missions. Depending on how you read it, this is either because he was trying to keep his brother safe or because he wanted to give his brother chances to catch prizes, like that previous ship that he captured, which could end up giving the family a lot of money.

Joe: But despite his best efforts to keep his brother safe, Admiral George Anson needed sailors. And he specifically countermanded an order to give Thomas an independent command. He promised George Grenville that it would only be temporary, that he just needed Thomas and his ship for an upcoming initiative.

Abram: But then what happened?

Joe: It is sad, I assume. On May 3rd, 1747, Admiral Anson and his flotilla spotted a merchant fleet being escorted by 16 French Navy ships. Anson's own armada, which included Captain Thomas Grenville, included 17 British ships. He thought that this was a pretty easy battle. He ordered the attack. The battle lasted five hours, and it's considered a great victory for England. There's even a famous painting of the battle, which is right here.

Abram: And guess what some of it is?

Joe: What colour? Okay, my printer is terrible.

Abram: Orange!

Joe: The point is that the British captured many of the merchant ships. They captured many of the French military ships, and for the most part, it was a great victory. Except in that battle, Captain Thomas's ship was struck.

Abram: Was that the only one of their fleet to be struck?

Joe: Not the only one to be struck, but Captain Thomas was impaled in the leg by a piece of wood. The crew rushed to treat his wound. They had to amputate his leg, but it wasn't enough. The young captain died a few hours later. He was the only captain to die in that battle. There were lots of other sailors that died, both on the British —

Abram: But he's the only, like, important person.

Joe: He was the only captain that died. To say that George was heartbroken was an understatement. He couldn't even work. He said, quote, "I have not been to the board today, nor don't much care if I ever go again."

Joe: Perhaps by coincidence, or perhaps because of this, Henry Pelham kindly removed George Grenville from the Admiralty Board just a couple weeks later, giving him a job in the Treasury instead. It was a promotion.

Abram: It wasn't really because Pelham, like, understood that he didn't want to be, like, part of it now.

Joe: I think him being on the Admiralty Board so soon after his brother was killed in a battle that he tried to keep his brother out of probably hurt him a lot. And Henry Pelham, who does seem to get along with George Grenville, who seems to be aware of him and thinking of him, gave him a different job at the Treasury. It would be better for him both economically and better for him because he wouldn't have to deal with the sadness of his brother's death.

Joe: So unfortunately, there was one fewer Cobham Cub.

Dad Tells Me A Funny Story

Joe: That was hard, but let me tell you a funny story that happened around the same point, you know, as a little bit of a palate cleanser. I read this story in a couple places, and as best I can tell, it could have happened anywhere from 1744 to 1754, or maybe it didn't happen at all, but we're going to tell it anyway.

Joe: George Grenville loved working in Parliament, but he was not a very social person. Like, he was a bit of a nerd. One night, he was invited to a party, and there was a famous singer at the party.

Abram: Wait, there are famous singers back then?

Joe: Yes, there were famous singers.

Abram: I didn't think songs were big until like the '30s.

Joe: They had music back then. It was different. They didn't have popular recordings per se, but they had music. There was a famous singer there, and George was considered important, so the singer wanted to ensure that he had a good time.

Joe: But George wasn't interested in having a good time, at least not that way. So George picked the pocket of another MP at the party, snatching a draft of a bill about building a turnpike in northern England out of the pocket of another MP. And then he proceeded to enjoy the evening despite multiple attempts from this singer to get his attention by sitting in a corner and reading the bill.

Joe: I don't know if this is true or not. It is true that he did lots of work on turnpike bills at different points in his career, so it could have happened at almost any time. But I just like this idea of a middle of a party. George Grenville is sitting in a corner reading a bill about the turnpike.

Abram: Was he allowed to steal the paper? I don't know.

Joe: I think mostly this was just funny. Him sitting in a corner reading a bill at a party, at a party, was more interesting to him than actually attending the party and having a good time.

Abram: Why did he attend in the first place?

Joe: This whole story is probably made up. About George Grenville, but I found it in multiple places, so don't blame me.

Abram: I thought it was funny. Yeah, I just am annoyed at the brother thing.

Joe: Well, yeah, but his brother was a Navy captain in a war. It should always have been about what's the best thing for Britain, not what's the best thing for my brother.

Abram: But do you know what I mean?

Joe: Yeah, I think it's true that he tried to keep his brother out of serious action. I think it's true that he was probably heartbroken that his brother died.

Abram: But was he the only important person to die there in that specific battle? Like, how many people died there? Like sailors?

Joe: Thomas Grenville died in the Battle of Cape Finisterre off the northwest coast of Spain. In that battle, 500 British people were either killed or wounded, and 800 French people were either killed or wounded. 3,000 French people were captured, including four ships of the line, four frigates, four corvettes, and six merchantmen. So the battle was an absolute victory for Britain.

Abram: Was that, like, the only loss they had? That was the only captain that died.

Joe: As I told you, there were something like 17 ships.

Abram: Did they each have, like, one captain?

Joe: Each ship has a captain, and many of the ships may have had individuals that died, but it's the only one in that battle where the leader of the ship died on the British side. On the French side, probably a lot more people died. See, I tried so hard to tell you a funny story as a bit of a palate cleanser, but it failed.

Abram: It failed.

Joe: So we continue.

No Longer a Cub

Joe: We haven't talked about George Grenville's personal life. He was a studious, kind of boring guy, as my little story revealed. But around 1744, he met a young woman named Elizabeth Wyndham. She was from a prominent Tory family and descended from the wealthy Duke of Somerset, who was Charles Seymour. And in fact, her dad had already died, and the Duke of Somerset was basically acting as her grandfather.

Abram: Have we heard about that person before?

Joe: No, he's not a person that we've dealt with, but he's basically her father figure at the moment because her dad is dead.

Joe: So Elizabeth had been badly scarred by smallpox as a child, and she wasn't considered a great match, but she was extremely intelligent. And we've been able to see this indeed from her writings. And the story that I started off with today was something that she wrote, presumably with details provided by her husband. And that intelligence probably appealed, I would think, to George, right? He seems the type of guy that would appreciate intelligence in a woman.

Joe: But Somerset disapproved of the match. He did not think that George was good enough for her. He may not have liked that George was in Whig politics, maybe both.

Joe: And so the couple waited. If they got married, Charles Seymour was going to disown her. And so guess what their plan was?

Abram: Get married in secret?

Joe: No, close. Wait for him to die.

Joe: However, Charles Seymour got the last laugh. Because when he died in 1748, he gave his granddaughter nothing. Well, £100 a year, like very, very little. George and Elizabeth had hoped that she would receive a great fortune, but Charles Seymour is like, "No, I know that you're going to get married as soon as I'm dead, so you get nothing."

Abram: Can they still get married?

Joe: They did get married. They got married in May 1749. They have a happy family. They have eight or nine kids, and one of those kids is going to get a podcast episode.

Abram: Is that William Grenville?

Joe: It is William Grenville.

Abram: So we'll be talking a bit more about this in his episode. Put a pin in them, and maybe we'll mention the Cobham guys.

Joe: I think they'll come up again.

Abram: They'll probably be mentioned briefly in his episode.

Joe: The thing is, Richard thought this was great. Richard said that his brother, quote, "won first prize in the marriage lottery." And given that many marriages at the time were arranged and they seem to have married for love, I'm kind of glad it worked out for them.

Two More Deaths

Joe: On September 17th, 1749, Uncle Cobham — that's Richard Temple, the Viscount Cobham — he died. As part of the plan, most of his inheritance was given to Richard, but George and others received a little bit. George received £3,000, so maybe $750,000 today.

Abram: Is that a lot? It's a lot. Like, could you survive more than a year with it?

Joe: Yes, you could survive a lot of years with that. But George decided that he wasn't going to spend it. He put it all in the bank and said that he would only spend the interest from the inheritance and that from then on his government salary would be put away in a bank account to give to his kids.

Joe: This way, he reasoned, he would have the same amount whether he was in office or out of office, but his kids would benefit every time he was in office. He could be comfortable but continue to support his career. He said, quote, "The being in or out makes no difference in my establishment or manner of life. The only difference is that my children's fortunes will be increased by my being in."

Joe: So George and Richard's mother also got that special remainder that I mentioned earlier. So their mother is now the Viscountess Cobham, and Richard probably changed his name at this point, although it might have been different, to Grenville-Temple. Different sources say he changed his name at different times. You figure it out. I don't care.

Joe: But a month later, Henry Pelham decides to reward the family again and he gives them another title. So George and Richard's mother becomes the Countess Temple. And so she gets a promotion for being a good mum. Richard can now start calling himself the Viscount Cobham. But don't get too attached to this. Don't get too confused, 'cause it's gonna change again in a minute.

Abram: He dies at like 58, right?

Joe: Yes.

Abram: 51 of those years are in Part 1, and 7 in Part 2.

Joe: We're gonna see. We're gonna stop this episode before he becomes Prime Minister.

Joe: Strangely, this is a little bit where our story dries up a bit. We know that the relationship with Pitt becomes sour again. Grenville is angry that Pitt doesn't support him again. We know that George Grenville misses the first months of the 1749–1750 Parliament because he's at Bath again, but this time it's because his wife is sick.

Abram: But even after — can't he just stay in bed if anyone's sick? Why do they have to go to healing places?

Joe: I don't know, but for whatever reason, one of the biographies said he participated in no debates entirely in 1751.

Joe: In 1752, Hester died, so Richard becomes the new Earl Temple. So she was Countess Temple, but the male version of Countess is Earl. So her son Richard is now the Earl Temple, and he is going to enter the House of Lords. So he is now really —

Abram: It almost feels like it makes more sense to put Countess as the male version and Earl as the female version.

Joe: Yeah, but there's a reason they don't do that. Why? Earl is male, Countess is female. And the reason that they did that is because the word "count" in the Old Norman accent sounds like a really bad swear. And the fact that you may not know what that swear is indicates that I'm hopefully a good parent.

Joe: So Richard's the new Earl Temple. He inherits both houses, the Stowe House used by the Temples — that was Uncle Cobham's home — and the Wotton House that was used by the Grenvilles. And he gives, or leases, or something — the sources are inconsistent — the Wotton House to George, right? So at the beginning of the episode, the house that George was living in, he just got it.

Joe: But weirdly, George is still absent. 1753, George Grenville appeared in only one debate in Parliament, and that was a census bill. That's it. Why was George quiet? I don't know. He might have been focusing on his family. He's just quiet.

Joe: But time moved on. By March 1754, Henry Pelham died, and unfortunately, so did his Broad Bottomed ministry. And if George Grenville wanted to stay in government, he now needed to work with Thomas Pelham-Holles.

Prime Minister Newcastle

Joe: Guess what?

Abram: What?

Joe: Thomas Pelham-Holles does not like the Cobham faction.

Abram: Yay! Wait, no. Yeah. Oh.

Joe: Although, should we be calling them the Temple faction now? I'm not really sure. No matter what you call them, they were not as important to Thomas Pelham-Holles as they were to his brother.

Abram: I assume if the uncle was still alive, then they would have tried their absolute hardest to kick out Pelham-Holles.

Joe: Very well may have been. So in the initial scramble for jobs, George Grenville wanted to be Chancellor of the Exchequer, and that was Henry Pelham's old job. But Newcastle didn't want to give it to him.

Joe: Pitt even defended and pushed for George, saying that George is, quote, "universally able in the whole business of the House." Give him any job and he can do it. Pitt also was trying to get him to be Secretary at War if he couldn't get Chancellor of the Exchequer.

Joe: But eventually George was made the Treasurer of the Navy. It was good because it combined his experience in the Treasury Department with his experience on the Admiralty Board, but it was less than George had hoped for. And even Pitt said, quote, "It fell short of the mark, but it shows encouragement."

Joe: George Grenville was added to the Privy Council under George II, but even this was a slight. So King George II sat on the request for George Grenville to be added to the Privy Council for three months. It's a snub, but at least he was still in government and he was higher than before.

Joe: William Pitt was back on the team, and he supported George and Richard again, especially after November 1754, where, as you can see on this sheet, William Pitt the Elder has now married George Grenville's sister, Hester Grenville.

Joe: Oh, family connecting. Family connecting. If only there was a sound to make when we have a family connection.

Abram: You said family! Wait, were they already related?

Joe: They weren't related yet. This is them sort of sealing the deal.

Abram: Was Pitt just aligned with their faction before? He wasn't like related?

Joe: Yeah, Pitt was aligned with the faction but not related yet. But this was a way of keeping Pitt kind of on sides, especially as now they didn't have that central leadership from Uncle Cobham.

Joe: So around this time, Thomas Pelham-Holles introduced George Grenville to someone new on the scene, a Lord Bute. Newcastle at the time was trying to win favour with Leicester House, which was Lord Bute's faction. Remember, that was Frederick's, the Prince of Wales, and then the very young Prince George's faction. But Lord Bute took notice of Mr. Grenville, maybe more notice than Thomas Pelham-Holles wanted. We're going to be back to that in just a minute.

Joe: So George and Richard also work together to help another new friend, John Wilkes, run for Parliament. They don't succeed, but they do manage to get him appointed as the Sheriff of Buckinghamshire. But remember that name, John Wilkes. It's going to be very important in our next episode.

Abram: Hmm.

Twists and Turns, but Always Disappointments

Joe: The truth was that Newcastle didn't really need the Temple faction or the Cobham faction as much as his brother did. He was doing so well in elections that he could afford to annoy some less well-liked MPs.

Joe: In November 1755, this came to a head. You might remember that Newcastle wanted to subsidize Hanoverian troops and Pitt did not. We've heard this story before. Pitt and the cousins quit the government and the Newcastle ministry fell. No, wait, it didn't. The Newcastle government stayed up. Grenville went into opposition with Pitt.

Abram: Did the Cobham stuff just fall apart?

Joe: Didn't just fall apart, but they left the government.

Abram: They left the government thinking that he would realize he needed them.

Joe: The power of the cousins was broken, but not for long, because the war was going poorly. And then Newcastle's government fell anyway.

Joe: And when William Cavendish came in, the cousins were back. They're back in business. Richard now became the First Lord of the Admiralty, in charge of that board that George was on before. George was made Treasurer of the Navy again. Pitt was the Southern Secretary.

Joe: That seemed to be going well for a while until the Admiral Byng affair happened.

Abram: Oh, yeah.

Joe: And Pitt went against George II by saying that Byng should have clemency. George II fired Richard Grenville and William Pitt from his government.

Abram: Why? Because they went against the King?

Joe: Yes.

Abram: Is that illegal?

Joe: It's not illegal. But, you know, it's when you go against the boss.

Abram: But wait, don't the prime ministers go against the king all the time?

Joe: Yes, but in this specific case, George II was really punishing them for going against him.

Joe: You'll notice, though, that George II didn't fire George Grenville. I don't know if I'm reading too much into this, but I get the impression that George Grenville was upset. Like, he didn't even think to fire me. He fired Pitt. He fired my elder brother. Why didn't he fire me? And so he's like, "Fine, if you're not going to fire me, I quit." And then he quit three days later.

Abram: But why?

Joe: Because he's like, if you're going to fire my brother, I'm going to quit too.

Joe: So eventually, though — remember, this is that period where Pitt — like, we hate Pitt, we love Pitt, we hate Pitt, we love Pitt. It keeps happening. And Pitt and Newcastle were reconciled. The King realized he needed to compromise a bit. And then we start Newcastle's second and more successful term as Prime Minister. Richard was moved from First Lord of the Admiralty to Lord Privy Seal, but otherwise things continued. The cousins were back. They're back in business.

Joe: George, however, was upset. He wanted a promotion. He had been Treasurer of the Navy for a long time, and he wanted to be Paymaster of the Forces. It didn't help that Pitt was often ill at the time, and George frequently had to step in for him as leader of the House of Commons.

Joe: In fact, George got more and more frustrated because his brother and brother-in-law kept getting new jobs. They kept getting recognized by the King, but no one was recognizing him. He wasn't even important enough to fire.

Joe: When Chancellor of the Exchequer opened up again, George went for it. But George II rejected his appointment even after Newcastle tried to convince him. But George didn't blame George II, or at least he didn't only blame him. He also blamed Richard and Pitt for not pushing harder for him. And still his relatives were promoted again. Richard was made the Lord Lieutenant of Bucks County in 1758. Then he was made a Knight of the Garter in 1760.

Abram: He got the Knight of Undies.

Joe: And George, he just became withdrawn from Parliament. We have a period from 1758 to 1760 where he apparently said almost nothing. He never appears.

Abram: Maybe if you start appearing, then you won't get —

Joe: I agree. But he almost barely appears in the parliamentary register from 1758.

Abram: But that's why you're not getting promoted. You have to actually show up to your job.

Joe: Whine, whine, whine. This doesn't seem fair. Why aren't they fighting for me? I won't even show up anyway. I don't think you're wrong.

Abram: He's just making it worse.

The New George Grenville

Joe: On October 25th, 1760, George II died. And George III became King. This led to a big change in government like we've discussed a couple times. In the transition, Lord Bute, John Stuart, became a favourite and increasingly took control even while Newcastle was still theoretically in charge.

Joe: But George Grenville thought that the new monarch and government were refreshing. Finally, he was recognized again. He was even added to George III's cabinet.

Joe: In February 1761, when Arthur Onslow stepped down as Speaker of the House of Commons, George Grenville almost went for the role. He probably would have gotten it too, but being Speaker required you to be slightly more impartial, and Lord Bute convinced him to wait. There's something coming, he was implying, that's worth waiting for.

Joe: Friction grew between the two brothers, Richard and George. Richard kept getting promoted. George kept getting very little, and this showed up in the way that they were handling the war. Remember that the Seven Years' War was super expensive and Britain was falling deeper and deeper into debt. George Grenville found himself agreeing more and more with Lord Bute, John Stuart, and King George instead of his brother-in-law.

Joe: And in October 1761, this new feeling came to a head. William Pitt, as we've talked about before, said, the Spanish are going to attack, we should attack first. He felt correctly that Spain was going to enter the war because of that Bourbon Compact. And if they're going to enter the war anyway, we might as well attack first.

Joe: But Lord Bute and George III and also George Grenville said, no, no, no, we don't want to attack first. They wanted peace and an unprovoked strike wasn't going to help peace.

Joe: So Pitt resigned. This is our Picture This at the beginning of the episode. Pitt resigns, George Grenville gets that emergency summons to come back to London where he meets his brother on the road and they have a discussion about Pitt resigning. Suddenly, those hints and promises that John Stuart were making are starting to come due.

Joe: After Pitt resigned, the whole Cousinhood resigned. All the Cobham Cubs said, we quit. But George, he made a decision. Maybe the largest decision in his life. Heck, it might even be his first decision. How many other decisions have we listened to him making?

Abram: To go to the bathroom or to wait three more minutes?

Joe: Possibly. He made that decision a couple of times. But in this podcast, how many decisions did he actually make?

Joe: George Grenville has rarely been an actor. Time and time again, we've seen him be moved by his uncle, moved by his brother or his brother-in-law, used as like the lawyer tool for their group. Time and again, George chose family over his own story.

Joe: But not this time. George stayed in government with John Stuart. He didn't accept William Pitt's old role, that of Southern Secretary, because he felt that would have been too much. But he was content to be the leader of the House of Commons.

Joe: Newcastle stayed in office just a bit more, but at this point it was clearly Lord Bute's government. And by May 1762, Lord Bute would be the new Prime Minister and George Grenville would be his man in the House of Commons.

Joe: But the bit in our story about Richard slamming the door on George, that was true. George's family was broken. As George Grenville stood in the House of Commons arguing for Lord Bute's policies, his family was there in the opposition.

Abram: So they don't like Bute. Is it like the Cobham guys still exist, but they're now against each other? They're against George. But isn't he supposed to be part of their group?

Joe: He left their group. That's the big decision that he made, is he decided he was going to go with John Stuart instead of his group, instead of the Cobham guys. And now they're in opposition.

Joe: And that's where we're going to end it today. Listen to us very soon, hopefully in Canada, where we're going to be recording Part 2. With that, we'll see you soon. Say goodnight, Abram.

Abram: Good morning.

Bibliography

Joe: The primary reference books this week are "George Grenville: A Political Life" by Phillip Lawson, published in 1984; "A Prologue to Revolution: The Political Career of George Grenville" by Allen S. Johnson, published in 1997; and "The Grenville Papers," a collection of letters and other material by several members of the Grenville family, including and especially Richard Grenville-Temple and George Grenville. This was originally published in 1852.

Joe: I don't feel qualified to evaluate primary sources, but included in this four-volume work were a handful of near-contemporary narratives of events from the family's perspective, including a narrative written by Mrs. Grenville that I adapted for our Picture This. It's a really handy tool for historians, and I wish I had more time to really dig into some of the amazing family letters that were included here.

Joe: Please make sure to give us a review in your favourite podcast app. It really does help keep us growing. The role of Lord Bute in our little skit today was played by Abram's friend Adam, who stopped by for a visit. And as usual, thanks to Sam Cunningham, SamC Productions on Fiverr, for being an awesome editor. Say goodnight, Adam.

Adam: Good afternoon.

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